Imagine that you are walking across a field where cattle graze.

You are having to watch your step, because there have been many cows in this field, which means that there are lots of cow pies. Some are old and dry; some are new, squishy and, “aromatic.” So you are not alone in this field. Besides the cows and the cow pies, there are also flies.

You have been given a job to do and you’ve been at it as long as you can remember. Who gave you this job is not so important. What is important is that you have been doing it and that it is important to you to do it. Like everyone, you justify what you do. Gathering cow pies is important as a source of energy, to have light, warmth, and to cook with.

You are carrying a big burlap bag over your shoulder. In the morning, when you set out, the bag is empty and light. The weather is cool but not cold, the sun is shining, and it is easy to see where you are going as you cross the field. Your job is to pick up the next cow pie you come to and put it in your burlap bag, sling your sack back over your shoulder, and move on to the next one. Some of the cow pies you come across are hard, dry and easy to pick up. Others are soft, watery, and oozy, and these you have to scoop up with the shovel you are also carrying and put the slop into your bag. So you set about your task.

As the day wears on, your bag gets heavier. You start to bend under your load, but, because you are not a quitter, you keep on going. The sun is bright and it’s warming up. You notice that you don’t smell the way you did when you started out in the morning. You have taken on the distinct odor of a big farm animal. The flies are very attracted to you, buzzing all around you and your bag. By the time it gets dark you are staggering under your load. You stink. You can’t see very well and so you step into a cow pie every now and then. Exhausted, in the darkness you put down your load and fall asleep.

What’s going on here? The experiences that you “collect” over the course of your day are certainly not cow pies. They are important, valuable, and helpful, designed to lighten your burden and those of others, not add to it. Still, if you examine them a little more closely, you may find that cow pies can be very creative and clever in how they masquerade as things like frisbees, chocolate ice cream, food, and money, health crises, as activities like good jobs, dream vacations, religions, and as people like politicians, media pundits, soul mates, and experts of various sorts. They can even masquerade as meditation and selflessness! Cow pies bring up important feelings as we gather them: anger, fear, confusion, sadness, and guilt.  Sometimes you find that your life experiences go sour and stink. They can weigh you down, like good food, even if you enjoy it. The things you pick up and carry start to define you. In time they become a burden that limits your energy and freedom.

Most of us are trapped into fulfilling familial, social, and cultural expectations. We grew up around people who collected certain types of cow pies and never questioned the usefulness or importance of doing so. It’s something that we have done for so long, like eating, answering the phone, or driving, that we don’t think about it much; we just do it. We don’t stop to ask, “Do I need to pick up this cow pie?” “If I do will it add to the weight I’m carrying? Do I need to carry more weight?” “Do I need to smell like cow crap?” “Do I deserve to spend my life in a swarm of flies?” “Can I stop collecting these cow pies, even if I wanted to?”

Someone from the Pleiades would shake their head and think, “What a waste of time! They wouldn’t understand how powerful habit and addiction can be. Picking up cow pies has defined you for so long that you can’t imagine who you would be if you didn’t set out across that field every morning with your sack. It is something that you have been given to do. It’s your responsibility, so you keep up your life, like a gambler finding themselves once again in the casino or a smoker mindlessly lighting up, or someone spending an evening in front of the TV and not remembering any of it. It is enough that you get a sense of comfort and satisfaction from doing what you are used to doing.

However, no matter how much humans try, it’s hard to hide that a cow pie is, in fact, a cow pie. People do all sorts of creative things with their cow pies to transform them and make them more palatable.

Perhaps pepperonis and organic feta toppings will make the difference.

If we are fortunate enough to live long enough, we end up looking and smelling like shit.

Are there really options to collecting cow pies? It’s difficult to say, but a good place to start is by asking, “Is this a cow pie or not?” “Do I need to pick it up or not?” “Do I need to carry it with me in my life or not?”

Many of the problems we have today is because we won’t stop picking up cow pies. Corporate global warming deniers like the Koch brothers just keep on picking up the cow pies they have always picked up. Entrenched interests, like lobbyists, dictators, defense contractors, bankers, and brokers just keep on picking up the cow pies they have always picked up. Politicians get re-elected by selling us cow-pies. Fortunately, we possess the objectivity to look, wonder, and laugh when we aren’t furious. We look around us at the cow-pie gathering behavior of others and think, “What a waste of talent, money, and time!” Do we have the objectivity to see how ridiculous our own cow pie collection is? Can we stop?

You have to decide what is and what is not a cow pie. Begin with the default position that everything is a cow pie in disguise, until proven otherwise. While this may sound cynical or pessimistic, it is not. It encourages you to question your assumptions about what is real, good, important, and necessary in your life. Most things that you think you can’t live without, you probably can. Simplifying creates not only space to appreciate life, but for emerging potentials to sprout from deep within you. Integral Deep Listening proposes that there are many potentials wanting to emerge within you that aren’t addicted to picking up cow pies. If you listen to them and their recommendations, you can learn how to stop.

In the following interview a group character that appeared in many dreams in many forms over many years is interviewed.  This demonstrates how you can use IDL to interview a group character.

In this dream interview Gladiola struggles with whether it is “only a dream” to hope for peace and freedom in her life or whether to affirm, grasp, and build that potential. If she doesn’t, then the dream of her life, which is in some ways a nightmare, will continue to crowd out the beautiful dream of her potential.

Gladiola’s struggle is our struggle, and when she awakens her potentials, we all gain. When she succumbs to the cultural and familial dream of her life scripting, we all lose.

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

1.Food less important

2.I would like to treat my husband well and not put him into a drawer!

3.Money

Tell me a dream you remember.  It can be an old one, a repetitive dream, a nightmare, or one that you’re sure you understand.

I repetitively dream about different apartments that I have actually lived in. They are fantasy apartments and are very strange. For instance, they will have showers when you enter the department! When I wake up I wonder “How is it possible that I don’t know that I don’t own this apartment? Who pays the rent?”  I am always so surprised that I have forgotten that I own this apartment. I wonder what sort of apartment it is.

I dream I have to go back to this small apartment. Sometimes I am alone but sometimes my family is there, including my parents.  In those dreams I have to stand up for myself: Do I get my space or not? I am always very relieved when I wake up and know my parents haven’t actually moved in.

I also dream of an apartment I find very interesting but I know that as soon as I enter it I will be kept hostage. I always think about having to remember my way out of the building in case I have to escape. I wake up before I become a hostage.

Why do you think that you had this dream?

I started having this dream when I was fifteen. Then I didn’t have it for some time and then I have started having it again. It is a repetitive dream that returns in variations. I have moved very often in my life. We moved from a very tiny apartment into a house when I was a teenager. My parents and I built a house together. When they came moving in it was a horror because they brought so many things. That is a variation of my dream that they will move into my apartment and totally overload and cramp my apartment.

What is this dream about? I somehow believe that there are other places in my life other than the conscious space in which I live.

If this dream were playing at a theater, what name would be on the marquee?

“My Forgotten Homes”

If one character had something especially important to tell you, what would it be?

The apartments

Now remember how as a child you liked to pretend you were a teacher or a doctor?  It’s easy and fun for you to imagine that you are this or that character in your dream and answer some questions I ask, saying the first thing that comes to your mind.  If you wait too long to answer, that’s not the character answering – that’s YOU trying to figure out the right thing to say!

Apartments, would you please tell me about yourself and what you are doing?

In all these dreams we are always interesting!

What do you like most about yourself? What are your strengths?

We like that we are interesting!  That invites people to come and see us!  We are always colorful and there’s always a front door that you can lock. We don’t let just anybody in!

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses?  What are they?

We are not always tidy! We don’t really care! We hope that we will always be there, that someone will always pay the rent.

But you are dream apartments! Does someone have to pay the rent?

Somebody needs to pay dream rent or we wouldn’t exist. Apparently someone is paying that dream rent because we do exist.

Who?

Maybe someone who respects us.

Apartments, you are in Gladiola’s life experience, correct?  She created you, right?  Apartment, what aspect of Gladiola do you represent or most closely personify?

Possibilities!

Apartments, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change?  If so, how?

We would love to change! We would have wheels and be mobile!

Cool! So what would you look like?

We would have wheels and be a bit like a motor home. Everything is very practical. No gold, unnecessary luxury. Gladiola could drive us around! Inside there’s everything you need! We would like her to take us to the Isle of Rügen! We would like to go to the cliffs above the water and watch both sunrises and sunsets! Gladiola would have to be there. Family could come and visit!

Motor Home, how would you score yourself 0-10, in confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, peace of mind, and witnessing?  Why?

(Starts to cry…) Gladiola has some feelings coming up right now. What’s she feeling?

Her longing for this peace! We would like to give it to her!

Aren’t you right now, at this moment, giving it to her?

Yes, but it’s not real!

Didn’t you say you personify possibilities as Apartments, Motor Home?

Yes…

Are you crying here on the cliffs of Rügen too?

Yes, we are sad too!

Why?

Because Gladiola isn’t there!

Why not? Why can’t you have Gladiola in you on the cliffs of Rügen right now?

No. We know her calendar!

We aren’t interested in Gladiola’s calendar! You’re imaginary!

OK. She’s here in me! It feels very good! She’s back again! She had left for quite awhile. Busy taking care of things…

Why didn’t she come to you earlier, Motor Home?

She wanted to but she couldn’t!

Isn’t she inside of you now? Couldn’t she do that at any time?

Yes, but she forgets!

Confidence:   9 Everything is here! We are stable. Nothing can happen to us!

Compassion:   9 We want to always offer what everyone needs!

Wisdom:   8 We are very good at being at the right place at the right time!

Acceptance:   9

Inner Peace: 10 All the other motor homes are envious!

Motor Home, are you sure that Gladiola deserves to have inner peace? Shouldn’t she be taking care of her family?

She can learn to do both!

I can see how you would deserve it, but shouldn’t Gladiola be busy instead?

No!

Witnessing: 9 We are very good at leaning back and letting the drama pass by but we are also good at recognizing it by putting our lights on!

Motor Home, if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different?  If so, how?

No.

How would Gladiola’s life be different if she naturally scored like you do in all six of these qualities all the time?

She’s not very good at staying in one place and witnessing and putting her headlights on. She could be a lot better at that.  She wouldn’t be so entangled in so many things. Her life would be completely different! Perhaps it would be different but perhaps boring…

Is your life boring, Motor Home?

No! We always have something different to look at…

If you could live Gladiola life for her, how would you live it differently?

She would go about things differently. She would have more time to do things that she is personally interested in. She would learn to play boogie woogie on the piano!  We would immediately grow a little so she could bring her piano with her! She would have her piano on wheels so it could move between the beach and me! Now she’s playing boogie woogie on the beach…and playing everything else too! We want her to play like Constantine Wecker!

Other life changes if you were in charge…

Yes, there would be more, but we don’t know exactly what. We know more what to stop, what not to do…

What?

We would like to find out about all the other things she wants to do so we can support her!

If you could live Gladiola’s waking life for her today, would you handle her three life issues differently?  If so, how?

1.Food less important: We don’t think that’s such an important issue!

2.I would like to treat my husband well and not put him into a drawer! We can’t help her with that!

3.Money We would be interested to earn money by asking Gladiola if it’s all right to be rented out so we could make money.

But as a dream motor home, what do you need money for?

We need money to stay as beautiful as we are!

Are these Euros or are these dream dollars?

Dream dollars!

How much dream money would you like to have, Mobile Home?

50.000 Euro a year is enough. It’s stored in a drawer inside me! We like looking at that money, too!

What three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of her life?

1. Independence. That we can do what we want!

2. That we can share our own beauty that is inside us with others!

3. Inner peace! It’s so important! All is so hectic! If you have peace and time it makes all the difference!

Motor Home, in what life situations would it be most beneficial for Gladiola to imagine that she is you and act as you would?

When everybody wants something from her! I would rattle all my windows and doors and I would flash my lights! Then her family members would all stop and find out what’s going on here!

Why do you think that you are in Gladiola’s life?

We are a part of her dreams.  We keep coming back. Our message for her is for her to rattle her windows, flash her lights, rattle her doors, and honk her horn!

Her family would all be surprised because this would not be the Gladiola they know. But we like it! She should do it?

But shouldn’t she feel guilty because her family now would think she’s crazy or selfish?

It’s good for them to be surprised! It would make them think! It would be good if that happened!

Motor Home, how is Gladiola most likely to ignore what you are saying to her?

No, we think she’s carefully listened. She is already trying to figure out what she can do to get noticed…

What do you recommend, Motor Home?

……..It’s difficult!

Maybe she can go to sleep tonight thinking about you and you can come to her in her dreams and help her problem solve about how best to make herself known to her family…?

We’re for that!

Thank you, Motor Home!

Gladiola, what have you heard yourself say?

Inner Peace!  It’s the main thing.  Everything else is hectic!

If this experience were a wake-up call from the most central part of who you are, what do you think it would be saying to you?

There are many possibilities!

“This is about you recognizing that most people think their dreams can’t come true today, so they never realize them. This is about making your dreams come true in your consciousness today, now, in the midst of your hectic life.”

Notice that Gladiola became sad when she felt the loss of her dream of being free and at peace on the Isle of Rugen.  She had snapped out of being Motor Home and it was no longer her reality. Instead she was locked back in the dream of her everyday reality.

The question and challenge for Gladiola, as it is for all of us, is, “Which dream do I want to feed? The one that feels real but is a nightmare or the one that feels like a fantasy but reflects my potentials and fondest hopes?” Can the two co-exist? Can you feed your dreams without ignoring or pretending that everyday reality is not there? This is a basic division among people. If you say that you can’t, then IDL is not for you, because it’s only for “dreamers.” If you say that you can, then you are choosing to become your potentials, despite what your family, culture, scripting, or experience may tell you is real, true, and possible.

Notice that Motor Home doesn’t have answers for all Gladiola’s life issues. Self-aspects aren’t all-knowing gods, but they have definite strengths, like freedom and inner peace, that we need to claim as our own and grow into.

Do you ever feel like a victim?  Do you ever feel like you are being unfairly attacked?  All of us are victimized; all of us do get unfairly attacked.  So how can we stay out of drama? How can we keep happy, joyous, at peace in the face of injustice?

Could the solution be as simple as becoming like a heron, standing on one foot, gazing into the water?  For Claudia, that’s an important part of the answer. Try it!  Perhaps Claudia’s heron can help you too!

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

1. How can I eat more chocolate without becoming fat?

2. How can I smoke more without developing lung cancer?

3. How can I become less critical sounding?  Not so pessimistic?

Tell me a dream you remember.  It can be an old one, a repetitive dream, a nightmare, or one that you’re sure you understand.

Shadie and Dayo were attacked by a mafia-type guy.  The man came with a shovel and Dayo ran.  Shadie laid there and is cut by the shovel.  I cry for help…An old lady takes me in her house and gives me tea. She is having a little tea-party-blether. The phone rings.  It’s for me.  The message is that my mother is in the hospital dying.  I feel that I am in the dramas of the dog, the superficiality of this old ladie’s circle, and my mother.

Dayo and Shadie:

Why do you think that you had this dream?

It’s like Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder!  I kept losing things in my nightmares that I love.  This is a repetitive theme in my dreams.  I think I have them because my dogs have been ill.  I’ve been very worried about them.

If this dream were playing at a theater, what name would be on the marquee?

Drama!

These are the characters in the dream, beside yourself…

Two dogs, the shovel, a man that knows that he can hurt me when he hurts what I love, the old lady, mother in the hospital, street, house

If one character had something especially important to tell you, what would it be?

Shadie.  I have the strongest feelings for him….

Now remember how as a child you liked to pretend you were a teacher or a doctor?  It’s easy and fun for you to imagine that you are this or that character in your dream and answer some questions I ask, saying the first thing that comes to your mind.  If you wait too long to answer, that’s not the character answering – that’s YOU trying to figure out the right thing to say!

Shadie, would you please tell me about yourself and what you are doing?

I have had my head bashed in by the shovel.  There is blood all over.  I am dead and I am not dead because I am a dream dog.  I’m just alive.  I don’t feel good.  This is Claudia’s dream, that something bad always happens to me, and I don’t like it!

What do you like most about yourself? What are your strengths?

I stay in a good mood.

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses?  What are they?

I am so passive when the man came and attacked me.

Shadie, you are in Claudia’s life experience, correct?  She created you, right?  Shadie, what aspect of Claudia do you represent or most closely personify?

The part that always gets hit over the head!

Shadie, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change?  If so, how?

No! Claudia would change it, but I don’t!  It’s equal.  It doesn’t matter.  It’s aggression.  Either I get my head bashed in or someone has my teeth in his throat.  But I can’t be bothered to attack.  Claudia would love me to kill him, but I can’t be bothered.

What would happen next if the dream were to go on?

I am dead, Claudia brings me away from the street, and Claudia is very sad.

I would become a white Heron because I can stand passively and look at the water. If you can wait for half a day, I might say something.  I’m just standing here

Shall I continue to speak to Shadie or the Heron?

I have had enough of this blood!  I will be the heron!

(Continue, answering as the transformed object, if it chose to change.)

Heron, you are in Claudia’s life experience, correct?  She created you, right?  Shadie, what aspect of Claudia do you represent or most closely personify?

It’s a part that can stand on one foot all day and look at the water and only move when it sees a fish~! I represent her equanimity.

Heron, how would you score yourself 0-10, in confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, peace of mind, and witnessing?  Why?

Confidence: 10 A fish always comes by!

Compassion: 10  5  for me, 5 for the fish!

Wisdom: 10  I know where the best fish are.

Acceptance:      Sure!

Inner Peace:  9 Also on one foot!

Witnessing:  8 I stay very calm and see everything.

Heron, if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different?  If so, how?

When I have a ten in compassion I become a vegetarian!  Or I will have to say a prayer before and after meals! In the other things, it doesn’t matter…

How would Claudia’s life be different if she naturally scored like you do in all six of these qualities all the time?

Her problem is that she has a compassion of ten!

Do you think it would be good if she had less compassion??

During the dramas, drink a tea!  She is suffering with so many things all the time!

Do you think that the suffering of others makes her become like Shadie?

No, she is suffering with Shadie.  It’s best for her to go to the sea and look at the water and not suffer with others.  If she was a ten in all things she wouldn’t look at dolphins and other things getting killed on the TV after days with already enough drama.

If you could live Claudia life for her, how would you live it differently?

I would meditate more on one foot and look on the water!  After half a day, change feet!

If you could live Claudia’s waking life for her today, would you handle her three life issues differently?  If so, how?

1. How can I eat more chocolate without becoming fat? I eat only fish and don’t get fat!  Ask a nutritional expert!

2. How can I smoke more without developing lung cancer? There is a man in a boat that always smokes who doesn’t feel well because he is always coughing.  I’m not the expert for this because I don’t smoke.  The Heron says, “STOP IT!”  How do you go about stopping? You start!   The inner pathologist can tell you about lungs and smoking…

What would help to stop it?

To BEGIN!

3. How can I become less critical sounding?  Not so pessimistic?

Are you critical, Heron?  Are you pessimistic?

Why should I be?

Is Claudia so critical?

No, she is self-critical. She criticizes herself for not saving enough lives and not doing enough to protect others from getting hurt or dying.  She suffers and is empathetic.

What three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of her life?

1. To stand on one foot and look at the water – that’s all!

2. Not to forget to get on the other foot when the one becomes cold!

3. Always look in the water.  Always remember that I am here….

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for Claudia to imagine that she is you and act as you would?

Always at the right time. Whenever the drama is too much and her balance is threatened.

Heron, do you do drama?  If not, why not?

No!  Too boring!

I thought drama was exciting?

Oh yeah?

What is your secret for staying out of drama?

It’s always the same, isn’t it?  If you’ve seen one, you’ve seen them all.  You look in the other direction!  Don’t place yourself in the middle of drama! No TV!  But she doesn’t need to follow all my advice.

Why do you think that you are in Claudia’s life?

To show her that there are other things in life besides drama.

How is Claudia most likely to ignore what you are saying to her?

By saying I’m just fantasy?

Aren’t you?

What’s reality?  Who knows?

What would you recommend that she do about that?

Realizing that SHE just might be fantasy!

Why would she want to do that?

To put things into proper relationship.

I think Claudia had this dream because

Because she only sees one side of reality and that’s suffering and death.

Why does she does that?

That’s what she’s learned.  You lose what you love.  What you love gets killed, gets run over, dies.

What do you think about what she’s learned, Heron?

That’s part of the truth.  The other part is life.  Being alive, standing on one foot, waiting for a fish.  You don’t know what I think and where I go in my mind when I’m standing here, gazing in the water.  Other people can’t stand on TWO legs, let alone one!

I think this dream event happened or (some character) was in the dream because…

To scare herself, to hurt herself.

Why would she want to do that?

Because that’s what she’s used to…

What have you heard yourself say?

To be in absolute balance is the most important thing.  There is a part inside of me that is very calm, in balance, and doesn’t get in drama.

If this experience were a wake-up call from the most central part of who you are, what do you think it would be saying to you?

Stand often on one foot!  Maintain balance!  Self-confidence.  Concentration.

“You have a part of yourself that can stand on one foot and it is good for maintaining your inner sense of balance in your life.  You have a part that can choose not to suffer but to be in balance.  There are always enough dramas in the world; it’s important to be in balance.”

It’s important to find a part of myself that can stand still, balance, and look into the water. Perhaps it is important to take this yoga position before the water!  It’s important to feel myself as a heron in my normal life when people are into drama.

What would be the subject for the next interview regarding this dream?

Nobody.  It’s only important to get out of the drama.  The best thing would be to get out while Claudia is dreaming….

What did you hear Heron say?

That he’s getting tired of being asked all these questions.  He wants to get back to the water!

Practically: Don’t waste much time with dreaming dreams of victimization.  Look for a way out of the drama!  The Shadie part of myself was bored by the same thing happening.  I’m victimizing myself in the dream, Shadie in the dream, my mother in the dream because she also dies, I victimize the man because I want to kill him.  I victimize the Dayo part of myself because he gets scared.  It’s almost like these other parts of oneself are bored by it all and only get into the drama because we want them to in our dreams…

Notice that Claudia is slowly waking up. She is seeing her life dramas of suffering and victimization as self-created repetitive boredom that persecutes the other parts of herself that have to show up to play these tired, melodramatic roles.  Ideally, she will learn to wake up in dreams, to realize what she is doing, and stop it.

This is an interview I wish I could do with every child or adolescent.  It is so classic that I think most children can see themselves in it, and most adults as well.  We all have a “devil” sitting on our shoulder telling us we can’t, shouldn’t, or won’t. The beauty of Integral Deep Listening, particularly for a child who is suffering from such self-criticism and fear of failure is that after they have done an interview they have a way of understanding and dealing with very real yet very subjective and difficult to control feelings.  IDL externalizes fears and hopes, limitations and potentials, in such a way that we can clearly see them and decide what we want to do with them.

Follow the awakening process of this lovely, thirteen year-old girl as she grapples with timeless issues of fear of failure at school, disappointing a parent, and disappointing herself.

As you read this interview, see if you can remember what life was like for you as a child…

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

1 Black outs during tests at school

2 Disappointment from Father at poor math grades

3 Disappointment in myself

Which issue brings up the strongest feelings for you?

Black outs during tests at school: It feels like I had blanked out.  I wish time would stand still!

If those feelings had a color (or colors), what would it be?

Black!

Imagine that color filling the space in front of you so that it has depth, height, width, and aliveness.

Now watch that color swirl, congeal, and condense into a shape. Don’t make it take a shape, just watch it and say the first thing that you see or that comes to your mind: An animal? Object? Plant? What?

A devil!

Now remember how as a child you liked to pretend you were a teacher or a doctor?  It’s easy and fun for you to imagine that you are the shape that took form from your color and answer some questions I ask, saying the first thing that comes to your mind.  If you wait too long to answer, that’s not the character answering – that’s YOU trying to figure out the right thing to say!

Devil, would you please tell me about yourself and what you are doing?

I am on her right shoulder.  I whisper into ear that she can’t do it!  Then I see how sad I can make her!

Why do you want her to be sad?

No idea, but it’s fun to aggravate her!

What do you like most about yourself? What are your strengths?

That I can be so mean!  The meanest thing I can do is to get at her so much that she has a meltdown and cries and really believes she can’t do anything…. I can aggravate her, convince her of bad things, I also put pressure on her.  I’m good at that!  I whisper into her ear that she HAS to go home with good marks!

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses?  What are they?

No!

Devil, you are in Ambrosia’s life experience, correct?  She created you, right? What aspect of Ambrosia do you represent or most closely personify?

More or less – her consciousness created me. The part that scares her, the part that tries to make her feel wrong and a failure!

Devil, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change?  If so, how?

I’ll be happy to the end of my days to sit on Ambrosia’s shoulder and scare her!

(Continue, answering as the transformed object, if it chose to change.)

Devil, how would you score yourself 0-10, in each of the following six qualities:  confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, inner peace, and witnessing?  Why?

Confidence:   9

Compassion:   1

Wisdom:   8  Ambrosia tells me everything she’s afraid of, that she is going to take a test the next day.  I know it all!  I witness whatever she feels so I know what to whisper into her ear, and she’ll fall for it!

Acceptance: 9 I’m only happy when I manage to completely to destroy Ambrosia’s self-confidence.  I would not accept if she didn’t have a meltdown!  I particularly enjoy it when she collapses in a math test – anywhere that it’s most important for her future life!  I would can also accept her when she has self-confidence, but it depends on when and how…It can’t be in an area that really matters for her future.

Inner Peace: 5

Witnessing: 5 When she is having trouble with her parents or doing sports I can lean back and just watch!

Devil, if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different?  If so, how?

I don’t think I’d be a devil any more if I had a ten in all…I would still be a devil when she took tests, but I might be more like an angel at other times.

How would Ambrosia’s life be different if she naturally scored like you do in all six of these qualities all the time?

Then she might not have a lot of the friends that she has.  Her friends are very important to her and respect her a lot and they love her for her compassion.  If she didn’t have her compassion they wouldn’t want to be with her.  If she had a nine in self-confidence I wouldn’t exist!  I wouldn’t have been created in the first place if she had such self-confidence.  She never would have had a bad conscience.  She never would have that guilt!   As long as she doesn’t do well on her tests I can handle her having self-confidence.

If you could live Ambrosia’s life for her, how would you live it differently?

I wouldn’t do blackouts because having them means I don’t have self-confidence!  I would still try to make her fail at German.  So far I haven’t succeeded….

If you could live Ambrosia’s waking life for her today, would you handle Ambrosia’s th

This lovely lady came with us on a trip to swim with wild dolphins in Bimini, because she had experiences in which dolphins connected her to the divine, spoke to her, and through her.  This lady was not psychotic, delusional, or in any way appearing to be emotionally unbalanced. She is friendly, conscientious, helpful, empathetic, and generous.  Her intuitive connection to the divine is very important to her and dolphins have somehow become a central path or bridge.

This very interesting interview reveals the interface between out of control world events: a world perishing due to human greed and ignorance, and the worried, caring, individual conscience that holds itself somehow responsible.

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

1 Intuition: With all the life issues we have today we don’t have time for intuition.  I have some, but I want more!  If I did, my life would be totally different.  There were moments in my life when I was very intuitive.  Those were very happy moments.  Everything fits together harmonically. Harmony is missing now.

2 Harmony in my life.

3 Love!  Love for myself.  I miss that a lot.

Which issue brings up the strongest feelings for you?

Intuition

I would like to do an interview about an event I had when I was mixing a homeopathic medication five years ago with a group of people that was led by an instructor in homeopathy, I was doing a very special mystery grinding of the “the milk of a dolphin” in a mortar with a pestal.  There was a mother dolphin in a zoo in Switzerland.  Our teacher asked the zoo to give him a little of the dolphin milk because he was making a homeopathic medication with it.  In the homeopathic preparation, you take one little drop of the dolphin milk and put it into 100 drops of sugar and grind it.  When we did that, very strange things happened.  All our senses became very active while this was happening.  We heard voices and saw pictures – not all the same ones – different people heard different voices and saw different things.  All our senses became very intense.  This is like wishful thinking, but you still see reality also.

The first step of the process was a dilution of one drop dolphin’s milk to 100 grams of sugar.  Then you do the same again, diluting it a second time in another 100 grams of sugar.  You take that dilution and repeat two more times for a total of four times.   The grinding only takes twenty minutes for each dilution, however, every step produces different visions and different illusions for the people in the group.  There were forty-five people in our group and everyone got different pictures and stories, so it took altogether two and a half days to do the four dilutions.  When we started to do this grinding I was tasting fresh fish in my mouth.  Normally, I hate fish.  I saw myself coming up from the very dark to the light above.  It was the sea and I was a dolphin.  For those two days I was a dolphin.

There are special themes that we discuss when we do the grinding for each dilution.  The first theme is home country.  Where is your home, where do you feel at home? The second is communication.  It was a very strong theme for me.  I and two others in the group were dolphins, the rest were humans.  I tried to say something to the humans but they didn’t understand.  Other members of the group were telling me I looked like a dolphin, with the nose and eyes of a dolphin.

During this time as a dolphin I saw that human civilization was destroyed.  It was like the end of the world.  Big earthquakes destroyed human civilization.  Everything was destroyed. I knew that we humans were responsible for it.  During the fourth grinding I was standing near to God and I felt very guilty for the destruction of the planet. I wanted to come back down back to Earth and tell humans not to do it, to somehow prevent it.   I was begging to be sent down to Earth because there was still time to change things.  It didn’t matter what shape I came back in, as a dolphin or as a bird, for example, to give this message to humans.  I was standing with my head down and feeling very guilty.  The Divine said, “Humans can’t understand each other.  Why should they understand you as a dolphin or some other animal?”  I said, “I will find a way to tell them so that they will not lose their contact with the divine.”  Then I was a dolphin for several lives.

The back fin connects dolphins to the divine.  As a dolphin, I was feeling that connection.  In my vision, all the dolphins killed themselves because they couldn’t communicate with the humans about the disaster in a way that humans would hear.  So the dolphins turned themselves on their backs to break their contact with the divine and drove themselves onto the land because they couldn’t contact humans.  They are still trying to be heard by humans today.

The leader of the homeopathic grinding said that there should be a fifth dilution but not all the group could follow it.  They could all sleep on it and he would decide which members could do the fifth step.  Fifteen people were selected.  The others were dreaming different things and got signs that they shouldn’t do the fifth step.

I did the step.  I woke up knowing that I should do it.  While I was taking a shower that morning I had a feeling that someone was pushing a knife into my back.   I was feeling it and I was screaming.  My roommate got me out of the shower because I couldn’t move because I was still feeling the knife in my back.  It was a big pain.   There was also a shaman in the group.  He stopped the hurting a bit when he gave me a wooden dolphin.  He told me that he wasn’t a dolphin man and that I am more dolphin than he is.  I caressed the back fin of this wooden dolphin and the pain in my back went away!  With this fifth grinding I was losing the ability to listen to the dolphins. At the beginning of the fifth grinding I was both human and dolphin but after the fifth grinding of the dolphin milk the dolphin went away and I was only human.  Afterwards, when it was finished, I was so happy to see the people, the sun, the trees that it all was still there after seeing everything destroyed during those two days.    Five years later, I still have this pain in my back sometimes; it comes and goes.

Associations: I have been dreaming of this dolphin trip. I would like to ask this pain why I can’t hear the dolphins anymore.  When I was swimming with dolphins yesterday in the Caribbean near Bimini I heard the dolphins like a choir, but I couldn’t understand them.

Pain, why can’t Terri hear the dolphins any more? Why can’t humans hear them anymore?

The pain is there, but it doesn’t talk.

Pain, why don’t you talk?

She’s not listening.  It’s as if she was just whistling….

What would be different if she was listening to you, pain?

I am still Terri feeling the pain.

Pain, what does Terri need to do to become you right now?

Love!

Are you willing to feel love right now, Terri?

I am feeling love for everyone but not for myself.

Pain, why is Terri not feeling love for herself?

It’s the same feeling that she had when she was standing next to the divine and feeling so guilty for the loss of the world.

Pain, do you think Terri should feel guilty for the loss of the world?

No, she’s not responsible.  She just feels that she is.

Dolphins, I understand that you turned over on your backs and beached yourselves because you couldn’t communicate with humans, is that correct?

Yes, we did that because this back fin of power is like a connection to the divine or like a TV remote control.  You can’t do what you want to do; you’re like a robot.  You are helpless.  We couldn’t stand that any more.  We had to disconnect this connection.

I thought your connection was to the divine.  Why would you want to disconnect it?

It doesn’t make any sense, but it was an inner weakness because I couldn’t take it any more.   I came back many times as a dolphin.

Dolphins, are you aware that Terri feels guilty and responsible for not being able to wake the humans up who are destroying the planet?

No, that’s her problem.  She’s feeling that.  We know that she has wisdom like we do.  We don’t make her responsible; she makes herself responsible.

Dolphins, do you think it’s realistic or helpful for Terri to make herself responsible for humans destroying the planet?

No.

Why not, Dolphins?

She had this experience and she can understand it more than any other human, but every single person is responsible for that.  They do not all know what they are doing.

Dolphins, why do you think Terri has had this piercing pain in her back?

The lack of connection of the line to the divine makes this pain. When she can listen again the pain will stop.

Is she listening right now, dolphins?

No.

What would she need to be doing right now in order to listen, dolphins?

She has to find a quiet place, sit down, and listen.

If she does that, what will she hear? (Terri has a problem thinking the dolphins are talking to her in the interview; she has to listen to them outside of herself.)

Does Terri have to go to quiet places and be by physical dolphins to hear you or can she listen to you in anywhere, or in interviews like the one she is doing right now?

Terri: I can communicate with them here and now because I am back in contact with them. (Problems staying in role: “I don’t know which one wants to speak through me right now, the dolphin part of me or the external, real dolphins.”)

Dolphins, what does Terri have to do to no longer have physical pain?

The pain is so she won’t forget what she saw.  When she starts to listen then the pain will go away.

Dolphins, do you think that Terri is listening to you right now?

Yes.

What do you want to tell her, dolphins?

We don’t want to talk to her now because it is too loud.

Is she putting you off, dolphins, or is she going to talk to you tonight?

We will talk to her tonight if she will get quiet and listen to us.

Thank you dolphins.  We look forward to supporting Terri and you in any way we can in the future.

When I regain this connection to the divine through my back then I will have regained my intuition.

Dolphins, how would Terri’s life be different if she naturally scored like you do in all six of these qualities all the time?

Connected with freedom and happiness all the time!  She shouldn’t ask, she should just live it!  If she wants the pain relief she will take time to listen to us.

You say, “listen to us.” So we stop and listen to you.  Then you say, “It’s not the time.”  Which way is it, dolphins?

They are bored.  They went off. They don’t want to talk…

Two days later:

They are talking all the time!  They say, no matter where she is she needs to take time to get in contact with us!

Dolphins, thank you for talking to Terri!  Has Terri had that pain in her back since she started talking to you again?

No!

How come?

She should take the contact to the divine.  The pain only returns when she is not in contact.

Can she do that through listening to you, dolphins?

They are helping.

:

What is the relationship between dreams and mythology?

Can individuals dream cultural myths?

Can myths influence individual dreams?

How do cults and religions get formed?  How do world myths get created?

Notice that part of what creates cultural myths in when a person cannot easily differentiate between external voices and internal ones.  Terri assumed that the dolphins speaking to her were external.

Notice also that Terri felt personally responsible for the acts of all humanity and for the destruction of the entire world.  This is grandiose and narcissistic, although her intentions are based on genuine caring.

Notice that Terri felt not only responsible but guilty.  This added a third problem to the first two: 1) inability to distinguish internal from external guidance; 2) personalization of world responsibility; 3) guilt.

These problems were acute enough to create somatization in a way that paralleled her belief system: dolphins lost their contact with the divine through their backs; when Terri lost her intuitive contact to the divine through being a dolphin at the end of the homeopathic dilution, she developed intense and recurring back pain.

All of this was real for Terri

This interview also demonstrates how Integral Deep Listening, as a form of Dream Yoga, helps people wake up out of false awakenings, that is thinking they are awake when they are not.  Terri’s reality of pain in her back because of the guilt and responsibility she felt for the destructiveness of humanity is a type of “false awakening.”  It is a real and important insight for her, so real that it is externalized,  yet it is not true lucidity.  She is clearly asleep within the dream of her own belief system, which generates her own painful reality. This is an excellent description of and example of how karma works and how we create it out of our awareness continuously, because we think we are awake right now when we are actually in a delusional state, locked in the reality of our own delusions

Come swim with wild dolphins while learning Integral Deep Listening!  http://www.claudia-hahm.de/welcome-everybody/

Your dreams tell you how and why you are stuck.  If you don’t listen to them that stuckness expresses itself in your waking life.  In this lady’s case, it expressed as a pervasive fear of the future that had a limiting effect through self-doubt for years. The good news is that much of that is unnecessary and preventable with IDL. How would her life be different today if she had interviewed this darkness when she was twelve?  This is why we need your help getting these tools to children and to their caregivers: parents, teachers, doctors, and psychologists.

What is a life issue that you are dealing with now in your life?

The big issue right now is that, after only one year in our new home, my Australian husband has to go back to Australia and I will be living here alone.  This will be only the second time in my life that I will be sleeping alone in a house at night.  I didn’t fare too well the first time around, and I have some apprehension about this time. He may be gone for over a year, so I have to face it as my future reality.

Tell me a dream you remember.  It can be an old one, a repetitive dream, a nightmare, or one that you’re sure you understand.

When I was 6 or 7 I had a nightmare that repeated itself over a period of a few months and re-occurred as a dream all my life, only it changed slightly.  The nightmare is me tied up in our barn on the farm. It is night but there is a circle of light around me and that’s all I can see, except for the darkness beyond the yellow light.  I am totally focused on that darkness, because I know that there is something or someone coming out of that darkness to get me. There is nothing I can do about it and I’m terrified.  I drew this dream out on paper and I am looking down on myself.  Three circles feature: one is the post I am tied to, the second one is the yellow light around me, and the last one is the darkness beyond in the empty barn.  Looking down like that upon the scene, it looks like a 45-record we used to have.

Why do you think that you had this dream?

I think I had this dream as a consequence of hearing about an incident that happened on our farm around that time.  The ‘village idiot’ whom we made fun of was a big, muscled man, and we were all afraid of him.  Our parents told us to stay away from him, because he wasn’t sane and he could be dangerous.  They even used him as a bogey-man to scare us into doing, or not doing, things or to make us obey them.  One day he went after our neighbour’s two girls, who had gone down by themselves to the creek to do some fishing. The stream had a bridge and it was in the back of our farm, and they had to cross our field to get to it.  All I remember was seeing the neighbour with his shotgun held high in the air, headed for the creek, hearing him say that if the crazy man had hurt his daughters, he would kill him. Confused and curious, us kids were all shuffled inside and told that nothing had happened, and to forget it, it wasn’t important, etc.  My mind must have filled in the blanks and the nightmare resulted.

If it were playing at a theater, what name would be on the marquee?

The Repeating Record of my Life.

These are the characters in the dream…

Myself as a little girl, the yellow circle, and the darkness on which I am most focused.

If one character had something especially important to tell you, what would it be?

It would be the Darkness.

Darkness, would you please tell me about yourself and what you are doing?

I am the Dark and blackness of life, the opposite of Light and whiteness. I am showing myself to Ramona for a very important reason.

What do you like most about yourself? What are your strengths?

I am the opposite, or complement, of Light, therefore I serve a useful purpose. I allow people to sleep, animals and plants to rest when I’m in their presence.  What makes me feel powerful is that I appear on a regular basis; no one can stop me.  Also I can hide things within myself; I can pretend to be something I’m not – in effect, I can fool people into thinking I am something that I am not.  I can be whoever and whatever people want me to be.

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses?  What are they?

I dislike that people are afraid of me, that some of them are afraid when I arrive, but that’s just an illusion that I put out.  My weakness is who I am – dark and my insides are invisible – but there is nothing I can do about it.  People use Light to navigate and move by, but I am useless for that.  All I do is hide things, even the truth, so I consider that my weakness.

Darkness, you are in Ramona’s life experience, correct?  She created you, right? Darkness, what aspect of Ramona do you represent or most closely personify?

I am her childhood fear of life, of the future, her future.  She was afraid of the unknown back then, the uncertainty that life and her family presented at the time.  Which is very understandable.  I represent her fear of the unknown and also her life pattern as she will see it henceforth.  I am surrounding her as a circle of confinement, to tell her that she is caught in this circle/circular/pattern IF SHE WANTS TO.

Darkness, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change?  If so, how?

YES!  I would change into a benevolent Circle of Light and Freedom for Ramona, so she can see that she has nothing to fear from me.

(Continue, answering as the transformed object, if it chose to change.)

(Character), how would you score yourself 0-10, in confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, peace of mind, and witnessing?  Why?

LIGHT:

Confidence:  10!

I am confident of everything, because I am Light and Light contains confidence; it just IS.

Compassion:  10!

I am compassionate in all, as I show things as truth and for what they are, all the time.  That may appear harsh to some people, but to me it’s how I show my love.

Wisdom: 10!

Being Light, I contain all the wisdom of the ages, and stand ready to give it away.

Acceptance: 10!

Life is what it is ~ and acceptance is a part of living.  I hold acceptance as truth as I shine my brightness upon it all the long day.

Peace of Mind: 10!

I am Light; I am Peace.  By shining upon lies and revealing for what they are, I bring peace of mind wherever I go.

Witnessing: 10!

I was and am the witness to Ramona’s pattern of darkness.  Throughout her life, I have been her witness and now she is seeing me for who I truly am.   I am Light and I am a great Witness to her recovery, too.

How would Ramona’s life be different if she naturally scored like you do in all ten of these qualities all the time?

Confidence:  10!

I am full of confidence that Ramona can and will change her life for the better because she has a lot of confidence in herself now, since I have appeared in her life because of her own dreamwork in recent weeks.

Compassion:  10!

I wish only the best for Ramona, and I will accompany her in all areas of her life, showing her that I love her and care for her.  That she has nothing to fear from me ever again.

Wisdom: 10!

Being Light, I contain all the wisdom of the ages, and I will impart it to Ramona through her dreams, her life events, persons she meets and other circumstances of light to assure her of her innate, wise Self. Her wisdom will then carry over in the book she is writing, able to impart the life lessons she has learned in healing from her abuse, and how dreams have had a major impact upon that healing.

Acceptance: 8!

Now that I am changed into Light, I give and have much more acceptance of things in Ramona’s life.  There are still some deep core beliefs that need to be looked at and accepted, but we are getting there!

Peace of Mind: 8!

I am Light; I am Peace.  Ramona, however, is not full of Peace all the time, so we’ll work on that, too.  This ‘work’ will include dream work, journaling, healing artwork, and writing her book.

Witnessing:  10!

The book that Ramona is writing IS a witness to healing a very difficult and negative pattern that she saw in me in that first nightmare. Now, as a transformed Light shining in her life, I help her be a witness to her unfolding as an independent human being, and to her process of individuation.

If you could live Ramona’s life for her, how would you live it differently?

I would be the Light that is on all the time in her psyche, even and especially at night, keeping watch over her.  Her life, then, would be void of useless, old fears that were given to her by misguided people.  Her life would be lived with no creative fears or fears of the future.  She would finish and publish her book, as she is meant to do, with no worries about ‘what will people think?’

If you could live Ramona’s waking life for her today, would you handle her life issue differently?  If so, how?

I think Ramona is working through this life issue in the best way she can right now; the only think I would do differently is that from now on, she will see me (darkness) as LIGHT, and that was something she never did before.

What three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of her life?

The Book

Taking more exercise like Walking to help her health

Do more dreamwork in order to get to know all the other dream characters she owns

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for Ramona to imagine that she is you and act as you would?

When dealing with other people. Because Ramona is an introvert, she has a hard time being social.  When dealing with her spiritual life.  And also, in her creative life:  she needs to Shine Her Light more in this area.

Character, do you do drama?  If not, why not?

Many people use me for their drama, but in reality, I am soft and true, so I AM not and do not DO drama.  Life is for living our dreams and use our imagination, not for being distracted with fake emergencies.

What is your secret for staying out of drama?

Always focus on the truth and what is to be done at the moment. Stay real.

Why do you think that you are in Ramona’s life?

To help her change her perspective on her future; to show her her true creative potential, and that her talent will help – show light onto – others who have suffered as she did.

How is Ramona most likely to ignore what you are saying to her?

When she lets clutter and outer distractions take over her life, then she loses perspective and she uses the distraction to procrastinate. This happens especially when she feels obsessed about doing things to ‘make money’ – also an outer drama-focus coming from others, especially her family.

What would you recommend that she do about that?

Clean out her environment of all distractions; follow a routine so she will be making progress instead of procrastinating; do dreamwork to keep perspective and listen to her dreams.  And WRITE her book – again making that part of her routine.

I think Ramona had this dream because

Her dream self – me – would some day reveal to her all the reasons for her addictions, neurotic behaviours, abuse aftereffects, and how she was able to cope through all of it and come out all the stronger for it.  This dream served her in a double way – yes, it was the darkness she embraced to go through life a misfit and unhealthy member of society, but in another context, the pattern spun out of this dream showed her that healing is possible, and it happened through – her dreams!  The more she listened to her dreams, the more she was able to see this pattern and start the healing process.  Now she can help others who have been through the same thing.

What have you heard yourself say?

That what is helping to heal me WAS the darkness itself transformed into LIGHT.  My attitude at the time of my nightmare configured how I would see this dream change into what my life became: full of fears of the new and the unknown.  Now that I know this, I see that most of the dreams I’ve had (recorded for over forty years) were pointing to this dream as a healing agent, if only I had looked at the pattern and stopped ignoring the forest for the trees.  What a revelation!

If this experience were a wake-up call from the most central part of who you are, what do you think it would be saying to you?

No Need to Fear the Dark, the New or the Unknown, because it’s all in the perspective, all in the attitude.  No Need to Fear rejection from anyone who will read your book – the LIGHT that it will shine out there will negate any negative response you may get.  Light brings wisdom, clarity, confidence. Follow the LIGHT and all will be well.

How much depression is caused by unconscious scripting you received as a child?  How much is a genetic predestination toward depression triggered by such predispositions?  If you were able to change that scripting, first by making it conscious, then by giving yourself permission to change it, and by then remembering to choose your new identity over your old one, would you want to? Would you be able to?  As you read the following interview, by a lady who has struggled with low energy and depression for years, apply what you hear to yourself and your life!

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

1 Depression: Low energy; difficulty making it up the stairs.  Since they come and go there must be something I need to look at from my past.  Lat week during yoga there was a meditation and I saw the image of myself on a horse that was dead.  No one saw that it was dead.  No one saw it was dead.  It was moving to pretend it was still alive, but it was clearly dead.   This is how I see myself: Christina doing her job, treating her patients, earning a living, but somehow she’s just functioning.  There’s no life there.  Lightness: Not feeling like carrying a burden all the time: to feel joy in life.  Everything seems difficult.

2 Job: Is this my path to continue with this job?

3 Partnership: Only limited men are interested in me.  I would like to find a healthy partner!  Is there something wrong with me that I’m not attracting healthy men?

Which issue brings up the strongest feelings for you?

Job?  Maybe that’s why I am depressed!  Another image I’ve been having for years : I experience myself as a kind of Thor Heyerdhal that is sitting on his raft alone.  I have crossed the Atlantic ocean.  I keep rowing. When I see the land a storm comes and pushes me back out and I have to keep rowing.  On a good day in my life I would be on the ocean and the seas are calm.  On bad days I feel the water is overwhelming me.

Ocean, are you trying to keep Christina away from the land or is it the wind, or is it both of you?  would you please tell me about yourself and what you are doing?

It’s not me.  I am what I am.

Storms, are you keeping Christina away?

Yes

How come?

It’s fun!  I just like blowing!

But it seems that you’re mostly blowing when she gets close to land.  Is that right?  If so, why?

I do like blowing when she’s getting close to the land! She doesn’t get what she wants! It means she’s weak and I’m powerful!

What would it mean if she got what she wanted and got to land, Storm?

She would just lie down in the sand and she wouldn’t be doing anything anymore!

Why?

Because she’s lazy!

(This lady participated in a workshop the day before in which a tired old bear turned into a high-scoring wild horse.  We decided to bring it into the interview, since it personifies her potentials.)

Wild Horse, have you heard what they storm had to say?

Yes.

Do you agree or disagree?

No!  It’s stupid what the wind says! It would be far too boring for her to lie down in the sand and do nothing!

But the storm is a part of her too. It knows her.  Why would it think that she is so lazy?

The wind doesn’t know Christina.

Wind, aren’t you a part of Christina?

Yes!

Then how come do you seem not to know Christina the way the Wild Horse does?

I’m not interested in her.

What are you interested in?

I just want to blow whenever I want!

If you were Christina, how would you deal with the ocean and when winds come up?

I wouldn’t row like mad.  I would just let myself be taken somewhere else!  I might believe that maybe this isn’t supposed to be my destination.  Maybe I can land somewhere else.

Then what would happen, wind?

It would be unknown land or an unknown island.

Would that be OK with you Wind?

Yes. Actually, that’s where I want to take her!  I want to take her to an unknown area. She wants to go to a known area.

Horse, how do you feel about her not rowing and going where the wind will take her and ending up on an unknown land?

Actually, I think that idea is great!  I’m enthusiastic about it!

Wind, where do you end up taking Christina? Where do you blow her to?

She comes to an unknown island that nobody knows.

Wind, what does Christina do once she gets there? Is she lazy for years? Does she find a Margarita stand?

She’s afraid, first of all.  She’s excited!  She looks around!  There’s lots going on.  There is everything she needs.  There are no people to be seen but there’s plenty of food and everything you need…

Wind, what would you do if you were Christina?

I would create new life for myself on this island if I were Christina!  There are so many things that you can do on this island and it’s a lot of fun to be here!

Wild horse, if you were Christina and you were on this island, what would you do?

I would go and look for other horses and when I find them I would join them!  I would be pleased with all the new grass.  You know, it tastes a little different but it tastes great!  There’s no one to capture us, either!  No riding schools!  We are just allowed to be horses here!  We can do everything we want to do!

Horse, if you could live Christina’s everyday life as if you were on your island eating your grass with your friend horses, what would her life be like?

If I were in charge things would be more relaxed, there would be an experience of space and not so much pressure.

How about loneliness, horse?  Are you alone on the island in Christina’s present life circumstances? Do you think that Christina should live her life as if she is you on your island with your horse friends and new grass or not?

No.  I don’t think she can do that.  She doesn’t have her community like I do.

You are a part of her, right horse?

Yes.

You have your community, right horse?

Yes.

Then you are a part of her that has found its community, right horse?

Yes.

But that’s not a REAL community.  That’s not a real human community. that’s just an imaginary horse community, right?

No.  My community is very real to me!

What keeps Christina from believing that she is you and living her life like you do?

She believes she is not capable of living that way.

What do you think of that, horse?

Yes, somehow she is too strange.  The other horses can’t understand her. She looks different from the other horses.

Other horses, do you think Christina is strange?  Do you not understand her?

She has a different color.  She moves differently when she cantors.  But it doesn’t mean we don’t understand her.

Does her different color and movement mean you can’t be friends with her?

Why not?  It would be exciting to find out how she will be in our group.

It sounds like it’s only her big fantasy that you are going to reject her, horses…

Yes. For us, everything is fine!

How do you feel that she projects onto you that you will reject her, horses?

It’s not our problem!  It’s her that goes away!  We don’t reject her!

Why would she do that, horses?

She simply thinks those kinds of thoughts.

Horses, do you think those types of thoughts?

No!

How do you keep from thinking such thoughts?

We’re happy the way we are!

If Christina thought the way you do, horses, would her life be different, and if so, how?

Yes!  She would be able to integrate herself in the herd of horses and have fun with the others and she could run along!

Wild horses, you probably know Christina pretty well. Why do you think she feels she doesn’t deserve your company and that you will find her different when you won’t?

She had a donkey mom. That’s why she feels she doesn’t belong.

What do you think about that wild horses?

She believes she is a donkey because her mother told her she was, but she’s clearly a wild horse.

Wild horses, if that had happened to you and you were Christina, what would you do about that?

I would ask the other wild horses what they think I am!

Wild horses, what do you think Christina is?  Is she a wild horse or a donkey?

It’s pretty clear she’s a wild horse that thinks she’s a donkey! She behaves like a donkey, that’s for sure!  It makes us laugh!  But it’s also hard work to act like a donkey when you’re not.

Should she spend her life living up to her mother’s expectations by acting like she’s a donkey, or should she become a wild horse?

She should finally accept that she is a wild horse and come along with us!

And if she does that, what do you think her life will be like?

There would be joy in her life and no more burdening!

But she doesn’t deserve that, does she, wild horses?  She thinks she’s really a donkey.

She has our permission now to be a wild horse!

So what?  You’re just imaginary horses that she made up.

Our permission will support her to experience herself as a horse among horses!

What effect, if any, will that have on her depression?

She will have energy.  It will change completely.  Donkeys slowly move forward with a hell of a lot of luggage on their backs but horses are lively and jump about!

And what effect would it have on her ability to find a partner, horses?

If she allows herself to become a horse and joins us she won’t attract donkeys, but horses! But as long as she thought she was a donkey she was attracting other donkeys!

And what effect would it have on her ability to do her work?

It would feel much more like having landed on the island. Definitely off the raft!

What if Christina were to choose every morning, to see herself as you, a wild horse on an island with other wild horses instead of paddling nowhere on the ocean, and that if anyone (including her own thoughts) told her she was a donkey, that she wouldn’t accept it?

There would definitely be more lightheartedness if she did that every morning.

And every night before sleep too, so that she’ll dream about being a wild horse instead of about being a donkey?

She’ll have different dreams if she does that! Where now she dreams always of trains that she doesn’t catch! (My dreams all have the title,“Unsuccessful Efforts!  I can’t find my car or my keys or I have no clothes on!)

What do you think about all that, wild horses?

Humans do that – lots of action and little results! But we don’t dream of that nonsense – we dream of juicy pastures!

Obviously, Christina is going to forget about all this because she’s really a donkey, right, Wild Horses?

Perhaps.

What do you think about that, Wild Horses?

Definitely put up a couple of horse pictures, a wild horse screen saver.  Write out something to read before sleep: Am I going to be a donkey or a wild horse?  Very important!

And if she were to take it on like a new job, like a discipline, and do it regularly, what would you expect the result to be, Wild Horses?

She will have energy and be powerful!  That is our promise!  She will be able to tell the difference! It is clear that she is the donkey when she is low in energy.

Wild Horses, do you think that Christina has listened to you today?

Yes!

Let’s ask her and see if she’s done a good job of listening or not!

How I’ve been convinced for so long that I’m a donkey.  It’s no bloody wonder that everyone puts more and more burdens on me because donkeys are supposed to carry burdens.  It’s no wonder how I felt!  How can I jump and enjoy my life when I’m a donkey and carry all those loads?

Does that mean you are selfish if you stop being a donkey and stop carrying all those loads any more?

It might mean that other people have to shoulder their own loads. They might get angry.

Wild Horses, how do you deal with anger?

We wouldn’t care!  They can kiss our ass!  Donkey times are over!  You have to carry your own shit!

What else have you heard yourself say?

The power and energy and joy, and beingness of a horse is available to me.  I AM that!  I somehow ended up in the wrong role.  It’s like the story of the ugly duckling that was really a swan.

Donkey, you’ve been an important part of Christina’s life, haven’t you?

Yes.

How do you feel about what you have heard today, donkey? Do you feel rejected?  Unappreciated?

I feel rather ignorant.  I feel stupid!

Why?

I feel stupid because I believe that I have to continue to carry all these loads.

Wild horses, do you think this donkey has to continue to carry all these loads?

No.  He can live differently too. There are wild donkeys.

Would it be OK if he grazed on your island, perhaps found other wild donkeys and perhaps even grazed with you?

We don’t mind him coming along with us! Without all these burdens he will also be able to move much faster!

Donkey, what do you think about what the Wild Horses just said?

It’s good!  I like it!  I would like to accept to put down my burdens. I believe that one day I can find other wild donkeys and have my own wild donkey family!

Christina, what did you hear Wild Donkey say?

That he can give himself permission to put down his loads.  He has done enough.  He has his working life behind him.  He can enter the island of happy donkeys.

Notice that as long as Christina continues to think that she is a donkey she will attract other donkeys, insuring unhappiness in her love relationships.  She is much more likely to be lonely.

Notice that Christina isn’t basically suffering from bad genes, neurotransmitter imbalances, yin/yang imbalances, karma from a past life, not meditating enough, or belonging to the wrong religion.  She basically has bought into an incorrect and inauthentic definition of herself that she inherited from her mother.  Her mother probably got it from HER mother!  How much of your unhappiness and suffering is based on an inaccurate sense of who you are?  How would you and your life be different if it became accurate?

Do your life scripts affect your health?  Can they cause cancer? Can they cure cancer?  We don’t know, but this interview of a woman who had just been diagnosed as retaining abdominal fluid containing cancer, raises intriguing questions.

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

1 Getting well again.

2 Taking care of myself better.

3 Finding a kind of inner freedom

Which issue brings up the strongest feelings for you?

Feeling as if I didn’t have skin.

When you feel as if you don’t have skin, what is that like for you?

I feel as if I could cry.  I have no distance.  When I first heard that I have the aciditis (water in the abdomen) I felt as if my stomach was weeping.  Usually I would cry.

If those feelings had a color (or colors), what would it be?

Grey

Imagine that color filling the space in front of you so that it has depth, height, width, and aliveness.

Now watch that color swirl, congeal, and condense into a shape. Don’t make it take a shape, just watch it and say the first thing that you see or that comes to your mind: An animal? Object? Plant? What?

It’s a landscape that I saw once in Greece.  The sea. A storm. The sea was grey, like metal.

Now remember how as a child you liked to pretend you were a teacher or a doctor?  It’s easy and fun for you to imagine that you are the shape that took form from your color and answer some questions I ask, saying the first thing that comes to your mind.  If you wait too long to answer, that’s not the character answering – that’s YOU trying to figure out the right thing to say!

Metal Grey Sea, would you please tell me about yourself and what you are doing?

I’m upset.  My waves are heavy, like metal.  The storm makes my waves.

What do you like most about yourself? What are your strengths?

There is nothing that I like about myself.  My strengths are that I feel forceful but I don’t want to be forced.  I feel violent but I don’t want to feel violent. I am powerful but I don’t want to have my power expressed as violence.

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses?  What are they?

I don’t like my total being!  I feel like I’m not clear.  I’m grey.  I feel like metal.  I can’t really move.  I would like to be transparent and have life.  I can’t see if there are fish or plants in me.  I only see this metal.  The only movement are these waves being torn by this storm.  I’m a grey mass, more than the storm.  If the storm wasn’t there I think I would be clearer.  The light would come through. The fish and plants could be seen.  The metal aspect would disappear.

Storm, would you please tell me about yourself and what you are doing?

I have the power to change the sea! I’m pulling the winds and making the sea grey as metal.  I can be violent but I can also withold rain and life.  I can bring the water from the ocean to the land that needs it.  I have a bad side and a good side.

What do you like most about yourself? What are your strengths?

I’m bringing life with my rain to areas that need it.  I can move things.  I have the power to destroy.  I like the freedom!  I can be anywhere!  I move all around the world!

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses?  What are they?

I dislike the destructive part of myself.  Sometimes I can’t see what I’m doing.  Sometimes I’m so powerful that I don’t recognize what I’m doing.

Storm, you are in Sarah’s life experience, correct?  She created you, right? What aspect of Sarah do you represent or most closely personify?

Her upset about bad news. Things she thinks she can’t deal with.

Storm, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change?  If so, how?

I would like to keep my freedom but I would like to be more caring about what I am doing.  I would still be a storm, but I would destroy less.

How could you be a big storm and destroy less?

I would agree to let some power go if I could keep my freedom.

Storm, are you free to change into a more violent storm or just a rainstorm or into winds only or into snow?

Yes!

Why don’t you try changing into different types of weather now? See how that feels for you?  As you change, look at the ocean and see how it affects it, if it does…

I see that!  I am changing the ocean!  I am even feeling more free!  (Cries…)

Some strong feelings are coming up for Sarah, Weather. What are they?

She is feeling more free than she did before!  In her behavior, in her reactions…from old patterns of behavior that told her to keep strong, to keep upstanding, to keep powerful.  Not to bend her head.

(Continue, answering as the transformed object, if it chose to change.)

Weather, how would you score yourself 0-10, in each of the following six qualities:  confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, inner peace, and witnessing?  Why?

Confidence:   9

Compassion:   8 I want to have the same compassion for me as for others.  Changes it from a 7 to an 8…I can change as I like, as I think it is necessary…

Wisdom:   9

Acceptance:   9

Inner Peace:   9

Witnessing:   9

Weather if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different?  If so, how?

I would be the same.

How would Sarah’s life be different if she naturally scored like you do in all six of these qualities all the time?

She would be able to handle her reactions without these old patterns she learned years ago. She would be able to stand back and watch and keep a certain distance between herself and people and situations.

If you could live Sarah’s life for her, how would you live it differently?

I wouldn’t change it, now that I know that as Weather I can be whatever I want!

If you could live Sarah’s waking life for her today, would you handle Sarah’ s three life issues differently?  If so, how?

1. Getting well:  If she has the freedom to change her weather or her reactions then she will fell better.

2. Taking better care of herself: That’s now much more possible if she is able to change.  She’s capable of such changes!!!

3. Finding a kind of inner freedom: Well, as Weather, I have inner freedom.  Now that Sarah knows that there is not only the storm but also the possibility of being weather,  she can be me, Weather, instead of always the inner storm. Then she will experience a lot more inner freedom!

What three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of Sarah’s life?

1. I would give her more calmness.  I would support her having more inner peace.

2. I would give her hope!  Encouraging her to be me!

3. I would tell her that she can keep her freedom and be me too. She has all sorts of abilities to change.

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for Sarah to imagine that he/she is you and act as you would?

When she feels offended by news or by the behavior of others, especially by so-called men who try to influence her…macho men!

Would it be OK at different times during the day for Mark to ask you how you are, what you’re doing, and what you recommend, Weather?

Yes!  That would be helpful!

Weather do you do drama?  If not, why not?

No.  My weather changes may be dramatic, but I don’t do drama. Why should I???

What is your secret for staying out of drama?

I don’t get involved. I have the possibility to change.  It’s not that I’m playing a special role…The fact that I can always change doesn’t fix me in a special role.  I’m always in flux….

Why do you think that you are in Sarah’s life?

I am here to show her what possibilities she has not to get so involved that she feels without skin and unable to protect herself.

If Sarah were willing to remember to listen to you and become you, and follow your recommendations, Weather, how would it affect her physical health, if at all?  Would it make it worse? The same?  Better?

It would be better because she won’t feel so exposed or vulnerable or powerless anymore.

What would you recommend that Sarah do when she forgets about you, Weather?

I will remind her!  I will send her a sun ray!

Sarah, what have you heard yourself say?

I will feel much better and I will get better if I will behave like the Weather after being so stuck in being a storm.  That I won’t be so involved in conflict or feeling powerless or vulnerable if I become weather.  That I can fulfill my life aims if I behave like weather.  Not being a storm – always blowing and staying in patterns that are years old. Being able to be flexible and change with circumstances.  Not only to react as a storm reacts with aggression or conflict.

If this experience were a wake-up call from your soul, what do you think it would be saying to you?

It’s much healthier being weather than just the storm!

I think this came from my early childhood.  I would see my father abusing my mother.  I stood up for her and defended her.  I’ve supported women’s advocacy and women’s rights issues all my life.  I’ve never thought that letting go of that stance would be anything other than submitting to the abuses of patriarcy.  Because of this interview I realize that I can be a strong defender when I need to, but I can allow myself not to be also.   I am realizing I need to do that for my peace of mind and my health.

If the cancer-filled water collecting in my abdomen is like that metallic, stormy sea, then my body is reacting to the storm, which says it is my defensive, attacking attitude.  To give myself permission to change my “weather” means that the sea can calm down and become clear.  Maybe changing my attitude can have a positive impact on this disease.

Who isn’t haunted from time to time by the internal voice of a parent?  What can we do about it?  Dream Drama, whether we remember it or not, reinforces waking drama.  The problem is that regardless of how much work we do during our waking hours we experience our dreams in a delusional, regressive state. This is because we think we are awake when we are dreaming, we think events are objective when they are subjective and self-created, and that we cannot change them when we can.

This is a low scoring self-aspect.  What are we to do with her?  If we continue to ignore her then she will continue to “haunt” and “curse.”  We can extend respect while setting boundaries.  We can define terms for an ongoing relationship that is mutually acceptable.  This can involve negotiation with a low-scoring self-aspect, as it does in this case.

In the silly picture above, who is haunting who?  Is “Mom” the one in the grave?  If that is the case, then that makes us the persecuting vampire!  If “Mom” is the one showing her fangs, then we are the ones that are dead to the truth of a healthy relationship with our parents.  We are in the mini-death of sleep, dreaming of a reality that need not exist.

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

1. I am buying a flat for the first time in my life.  The theme is to create a precious place for myself.

2. Love!  Holding my light in my relationship with my partner.

3. Trust in myself.

Tell me a dream you remember.  It can be an old one, a repetitive dream, a nightmare, or one that you’re sure you understand.

I received a letter from the authorities. They wrote me that I have to go to the municipal offices to justify myself and pay a penalty.  What I did wrong was that I didn’t bury my mother appropriately.  The authorities said that my mother must come to life again and she would live forever because I didn’t bury her in the amount of time you must bury her.  However, if I could give a good explanation why I didn’t, then perhaps it could be changed (meaning she wouldn’t have to return).

Why do you think that you had this dream?

When I awoke  I went into my bathroom and wondered why I didn’t bury her.  It took me a long time to realize that this was a dream! I thought, No! Not again!  That she comes and she stays!  This was a horror in both directions, not only for me.  The last years with my mother were really a burden.   She had Alzheimer’s for seven years and awake coma for four more years. Before that she was a difficult person.  It was a long, unsatisfying farewell.  It was unfinished.  I was very responsible for her all those years.  This burden was in this dream.  At the time I had this dream, half a year ago, I was in a phase of my life to really free myself but I still felt that burden.  She died two and a half years ago.

If it were playing at a theater, what name would be on the marquee?

The Curse!

These are the characters in the dream…

My mother, me, the authorities, government offices, the letter.

If one character had something especially important to tell you, what would it be?

My mother, Ida.

Now remember how as a child you liked to pretend you were a teacher or a doctor?  It’s easy and fun for you to imagine that you are this or that character in your dream and answer some questions I ask, saying the first thing that comes to your mind.  If you wait too long to answer, that’s not the character answering – that’s YOU trying to figure out the right thing to say!

Ida, would you please tell me about yourself and what you are doing?

I prepare for my coming back.  I don’t care about coming back.  I just do it.

What do you like most about yourself? What are your strengths?

A funny question! My importance.  My strictness and stubbornness.  I’m creative, decisive, everybody loves me; I’m unconventional.  I don’t follow any rules.  I am strong, very strong.

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses?  What are they?

My anxiety, my being dependent, my being the second one (I’m a twin.)  No weaknesses that I would tell YOU!  You’re a man.  I don’t trust men!

Ida, you are in this person’s life experience, correct?  They created you, right?  Ida, what aspect of this person do you represent or most closely personify?

I don’t know!

Ida, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change?  If so, how?

It doesn’t matter.  I don’t have any desire to change.

(Continue, answering as the transformed object, if it chose to change.)

(Character), how would you score yourself 0-10, in confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, peace of mind, and witnessing?  Why?

Confidence: 5

Compassion: 3

Wisdom: 6

Acceptance: 2 Toward others.  8 toward myself.

Inner Peace: 5

Witnessing: 4

Ida, if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different?  If so, how?

I don’t like proposals.  I don’t know what it is to be happy.  (“I fall out of this role – my mother was psychotic from time to time.  It’s difficult for me to answer in a crazy way…”)

How would Carmen’s life be different if she naturally scored high in all six of these qualities all the time?

I don’t know so much about her.  No idea!

If you could live Carmen’s life for her, how would you live it differently?

I would live it the way she is living it.  I would love to live her life.

Your daughter is frightened by the idea of you coming back.  How do you feel about her being frightened?

I feel a feeling.  I feel fear.  That feels familiar to me.

If you could live this person’s waking life for her today, would you handle her three life issues differently?  If so, how?

1. The flat is too usual.  I would have it be a bit more unusual.

2. I would stay with the women!  Throw the boyfriend out!

3. I absolutely trust myself!

What three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of her life?

1. Being more famous

2. Being more acknowledged.

3. Being the best

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for this person to imagine that they are you and act as you would?

She would not be so sensitive and vulnerable if she were me.  She should become me when she feels that way.

Ida, do you do drama?  If not, why not?

Yes. Same as when I was alive!

Why do you think that you are in Carmen’s life?

She can’t live without me!

How is Carmen most likely to ignore what you are saying to them?

I don’t care if she heard me or not.  She won’t forget about me!

I think Carmen had this dream because

(Tears) It makes me sad.  She was close to forgetting me.  She has a bad conscience about letting go of me.  I didn’t treat her so well.  It touches me that she won’t forget me even though I didn’t treat her so well.  I feel that I deserve to be forgotten.

I think this dream event happened or (some character) was in the dream because…

She’s always so tidy. She tries to make everything right.  She wants me to have my peace. She believes that she did something wrong so that I can’t sleep and have my peace.  It’s nice that she cares for me.  I don’t think that she did something wrong that keeps me from having my peace.

Why not?

If I say that then I let her go…then I’m all alone.

If you could change your experience so you weren’t alone, what would be different?

I would let her go.  I don’t have to hold her so tight.  I would have lots of people around and all being there for be, adoring me!

Is it true that you are a part of Carmen?

Probably!

What have you heard yourself say?

Not being alone is the most important thing for Ida, no matter who is there.  What touched me most was that she is desiring so much to live my life.  That hit me in a way.  That she didn’t have any image of being happy.    Behind all the strength and being special I felt all this fear and real craziness.  Always losing contact and not being able to understand what you say.  What hurt was Mom not really being interested in me, only in the outside of my life.

Addressed to the others present: What else did you hear Carmen say to herself?

That Ida felt hypersensitive and far too vulnerable. She doesn’t really feel the difference between being alive and dead.  That she would kick out men, trust herself, and live with women!  She would concentrate on being famous and being adored!  She doesn’t want to let go of Carmen because she would be all alone.  If she could let go she wouldn’t care much about Carmen.  Her idea of not being alone is having people around to adore her and admire her.  She couldn’t imagine having higher scores.  She said, “I don’t want to follow proposals!”  She was touched when you asked why Carmen dreamt of her.  Carmen always is very eager to please.

If this experience were a wake-up call from the most central part of who you are, what do you think it would be saying to you?

“Free Willie!”  To just let her go and really acknowledge that there is no more work for me.  Escape the curse of endless responsibility.   It was very good for me to feel the difference.  It shocked me how easily I could shift into that personality that was definitely not me.

Clearly, such an interview raises as many questions as it answers.  Many times the interviewer and others listening are surprised at what a person takes away from the interview because it can be widely different from what was heard or from the significance for others.

Carmen felt that the interview allowed her to take a major step toward releasing her mother, to accepting her for who she was and was not, and to allow herself to move beyond feeling responsible for what she did and did not do, said and did not say to her mother while she was alive.  To live our own lives we have must, at some point, evict the negative aspects of our parents that are still living rent-free in our heads.  Integral Deep Listening is a powerful, effective way to do so.

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

1. Waking up to the luminosity and emptiness of life

2. Experiencing joyful absurdity more

3. Experiencing this moment as unlimited abundance

Imagine you are on your deathbed, looking back over your life.  Imagine all your dreams have come true.  What do you see when you look back?  How has your life unfolded?

My work is spread all over the world.  I have over one hundred trained teachers who are training other teachers.  It’s being used in families on all continents – even families of penguins on Antarctica (just kidding).  Many people have internalized the work and made it their own so that it is not even associated with me or Dream Yoga or Integral Deep Listening.  It is so commonplace they think they developed it themselves.  I think that’s hilarious – the way it should be, since it never belonged to me in the first place.  Claudia has beaten all odds and stayed healthy to the age of 106; I am still lively at 117, but ready to pass the baton to my many friends, co-creators, and students.  I can’t wait to come back into a family that will raise me in this work so I can continue it!

Now imagine that you are on your deathbed, looking back over your life.  Imagine that NONE of your dreams have come true; in fact, all of your fears have come to pass.  What happened?  How do you feel?

Everybody thinks my work is ridiculous and it is widely and profoundly ignored.  Claudia has left me.  Since I can’t speak enough German, I limp back to the U.S. where I am unable to make enough.  I develop such a painful condition that I can’t exercise and gain 230 pounds.  I’m throwing up all the time.  My hair falls out.  I’m alone.  I’ve got bad breath and I stink.  Even dogs walk on the other side of the street when they see me.  I am totally depressed and anxious since I’m a weak, helpless, broke failure.

If those feelings had a color (or colors), what would it be?

Dog shit brown.

Imagine that color filling the space in front of you so that it has depth, height, width, and aliveness.

Now watch that color swirl, congeal, and condense into a shape. Don’t make it take a shape, just watch it and say the first thing that you see or that comes to your mind: An animal? Object? Plant? What?

A machine that extrudes shit.  It’s pumping it out like mad all around me wherever I go and on me as well.  I stink.

Now remember how as a child you liked to pretend you were a teacher or a doctor?  It’s easy and fun for you to imagine that you are this or that character in your dream and answer some questions I ask, saying the first thing that comes to your mind.  If you wait too long to answer, that’s not the character answering – that’s YOU trying to figure out the right thing to say!

Shit producing machine, would you please tell me about yourself and what you are doing?

I am big and ugly pitted metal, like a funnel with a long tube.  I’m full of shit and I’m joyfully extruding it everywhere, like a demented pogo stick, hopping around Joseph, and especially having fun covering him with it.

What do you like most about yourself? What are your strengths?

I am very lively!  I love my job!  I love life!  I love tormenting Joseph!  And I love producing all this shit that people hate and that is absolutely good for nothing!

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses?  What are they?

No, I think I do a very good, thorough job.  I seem to do a magical job of taking air and sky and turning it into an infinite amount of shit.  I never run out of energy to do it!!!  Fun!

Shit producing machine, you are in this person’s life experience, correct?  They created you, right?_____  Shit producing machine, what aspect of this person do you represent or most closely personify?

The persecutor. The part of himself that likes to beat up on himself and enjoys it!

Shit producing machine, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change?  If so, how?

No, I think Joseph needs me to stay motivated.  Besides, I have great fun tormenting him.

(Continue, answering as the transformed object, if it chose to change.)

(Character), how would you score yourself 0-10, in confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, peace of mind, and witnessing?  Why?

Confidence: 10 Hey, I am indestructible and am happy!  I’m WAY confident!

Compassion:   0 What’s that?  In fact, I don’t believe in that stuff.  It creates laziness and lack of motivation.

Wisdom: 10 I think I am very wise.  I definitely know what’s best for Joseph: to be reminded of how shitty he is and how shitty life is.

Acceptance: 10 I am EXTREMELY accepting!  Do YOU accept dog shit everywhere?  Would you be happy with YOURSELF producing infinite amounts of  dog shit??

Inner Peace:   3 I’m not anxious, but I keep moving and active.  I don’t like that peaceful garbage.  Too lazy.

Witnessing: 10 I like to watch Joseph labor under all that shit!

(Character,) if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different?  If so, how?

Hmmmm,…I don’t want to change.  If I were 10 in Inner Peace and Compassion I definitely wouldn’t be a shit extruding machine.  I’d probably just be the sky, which is dull and boring.

How would the life of the person who created you be different if he naturally scored high in all six of these qualities all the time?

I wouldn’t like that.  I would have no power over him.  That wouldn’t be good, because he needs me to torment him to motivate him to grow.

If you could live the life of the person who created you for him, how would you live it differently?

Well, I’m not at all tormented.  I wouldn’t allow anything to torment me.  Not anyone, not any thought, not any feeling.  I would be so vigilant not to allow that to happen that it wouldn’t even get started.  Maybe I couldn’t change the world from extruding shit, but I could certainly choose whether or not I felt tormented by it, and I would choose not to be.

If you could live this person’s waking life for him/her today, would you handle his/her three life issues differently?  If so, how?

1. Regarding waking up to the luminosity and emptiness of life, I would be the sky.  It’s both of those things.

2. Regarding experiencing joyful absurdity, I think staying me is good.  I have a lot of fun!  And there’s a lot of reality to me.  Pretending I don’t exist is retarded.

3. Experiencing this moment as unlimited abundance: I would be both me and the sky, since the sky is unlimited and my shit and my ability to produce it is unlimited.  So you have an abundance of the good, the bad, and the ugly.  That’s reality.

What three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of his life?

Those three are excellent.  I couldn’t agree more.

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for this person to imagine that they are you and act as you would?

Only when he wants more of those three qualities that are his life issues.  Only when he wants to stop persecuting himself.  When he realizes he’s persecuting himself, he could do MUCH worse than to think of me and imagine he is me!

Why do you think that you are in this person’s life?

To help him not take himself, his problems, his fears so seriously.

What do you think about this person’s nightmare?

It’s boring.  It’s melodrama.  Can’t he think up anything more creatively tragic than that?

What do you think about this person’s good dream?

Why not?  It’s a GOOD good dream!  I don’t see anything impractical or impossible about it!  I like it!

How is this person most likely to ignore what you are saying to them?

Oh, he’d rather stay worried and in drama, persecuting himself than have fun.  Life is serious, you know?  And that’s fine with me, because then I get to have my FUN!!!!

What would you recommend that they do about that?

Wake up, realize what he’s doing, and become the sky!  Then be me and enjoy producing shit!

I think this person created this nightmare because

He likes scaring himself!

What have you heard yourself say?

I think I need to persecute myself to motivate myself to grow and do my work.  It’s bullshit.  Well, actually, dog shit.  I need to be the dog shit producing machine so I can laugh at what I am doing to myself.  I need to become the sky so I can experience abundance and luminosity.

If this experience were a wake-up call from your soul, what do you think it would be saying to you?

Love yourself! Don’t take yourself or your life seriously!  Trust me!  You’ll have more energy and more fun and be more likely to accomplish your dream, which is a very, very good one!