Imagine that you are walking across a field where cattle graze.

You are having to watch your step, because there have been many cows in this field, which means that there are lots of cow pies. Some are old and dry; some are new, squishy and, “aromatic.” So you are not alone in this field. Besides the cows and the cow pies, there are also flies.

You have been given a job to do and you’ve been at it as long as you can remember. Who gave you this job is not so important. What is important is that you have been doing it and that it is important to you to do it. Like everyone, you justify what you do. Gathering cow pies is important as a source of energy, to have light, warmth, and to cook with.

You are carrying a big burlap bag over your shoulder. In the morning, when you set out, the bag is empty and light. The weather is cool but not cold, the sun is shining, and it is easy to see where you are going as you cross the field. Your job is to pick up the next cow pie you come to and put it in your burlap bag, sling your sack back over your shoulder, and move on to the next one. Some of the cow pies you come across are hard, dry and easy to pick up. Others are soft, watery, and oozy, and these you have to scoop up with the shovel you are also carrying and put the slop into your bag. So you set about your task.

As the day wears on, your bag gets heavier. You start to bend under your load, but, because you are not a quitter, you keep on going. The sun is bright and it’s warming up. You notice that you don’t smell the way you did when you started out in the morning. You have taken on the distinct odor of a big farm animal. The flies are very attracted to you, buzzing all around you and your bag. By the time it gets dark you are staggering under your load. You stink. You can’t see very well and so you step into a cow pie every now and then. Exhausted, in the darkness you put down your load and fall asleep.

What’s going on here? The experiences that you “collect” over the course of your day are certainly not cow pies. They are important, valuable, and helpful, designed to lighten your burden and those of others, not add to it. Still, if you examine them a little more closely, you may find that cow pies can be very creative and clever in how they masquerade as things like frisbees, chocolate ice cream, food, and money, health crises, as activities like good jobs, dream vacations, religions, and as people like politicians, media pundits, soul mates, and experts of various sorts. They can even masquerade as meditation and selflessness! Cow pies bring up important feelings as we gather them: anger, fear, confusion, sadness, and guilt.  Sometimes you find that your life experiences go sour and stink. They can weigh you down, like good food, even if you enjoy it. The things you pick up and carry start to define you. In time they become a burden that limits your energy and freedom.

Most of us are trapped into fulfilling familial, social, and cultural expectations. We grew up around people who collected certain types of cow pies and never questioned the usefulness or importance of doing so. It’s something that we have done for so long, like eating, answering the phone, or driving, that we don’t think about it much; we just do it. We don’t stop to ask, “Do I need to pick up this cow pie?” “If I do will it add to the weight I’m carrying? Do I need to carry more weight?” “Do I need to smell like cow crap?” “Do I deserve to spend my life in a swarm of flies?” “Can I stop collecting these cow pies, even if I wanted to?”

Someone from the Pleiades would shake their head and think, “What a waste of time! They wouldn’t understand how powerful habit and addiction can be. Picking up cow pies has defined you for so long that you can’t imagine who you would be if you didn’t set out across that field every morning with your sack. It is something that you have been given to do. It’s your responsibility, so you keep up your life, like a gambler finding themselves once again in the casino or a smoker mindlessly lighting up, or someone spending an evening in front of the TV and not remembering any of it. It is enough that you get a sense of comfort and satisfaction from doing what you are used to doing.

However, no matter how much humans try, it’s hard to hide that a cow pie is, in fact, a cow pie. People do all sorts of creative things with their cow pies to transform them and make them more palatable.

Perhaps pepperonis and organic feta toppings will make the difference.

If we are fortunate enough to live long enough, we end up looking and smelling like shit.

Are there really options to collecting cow pies? It’s difficult to say, but a good place to start is by asking, “Is this a cow pie or not?” “Do I need to pick it up or not?” “Do I need to carry it with me in my life or not?”

Many of the problems we have today is because we won’t stop picking up cow pies. Corporate global warming deniers like the Koch brothers just keep on picking up the cow pies they have always picked up. Entrenched interests, like lobbyists, dictators, defense contractors, bankers, and brokers just keep on picking up the cow pies they have always picked up. Politicians get re-elected by selling us cow-pies. Fortunately, we possess the objectivity to look, wonder, and laugh when we aren’t furious. We look around us at the cow-pie gathering behavior of others and think, “What a waste of talent, money, and time!” Do we have the objectivity to see how ridiculous our own cow pie collection is? Can we stop?

You have to decide what is and what is not a cow pie. Begin with the default position that everything is a cow pie in disguise, until proven otherwise. While this may sound cynical or pessimistic, it is not. It encourages you to question your assumptions about what is real, good, important, and necessary in your life. Most things that you think you can’t live without, you probably can. Simplifying creates not only space to appreciate life, but for emerging potentials to sprout from deep within you. Integral Deep Listening proposes that there are many potentials wanting to emerge within you that aren’t addicted to picking up cow pies. If you listen to them and their recommendations, you can learn how to stop.

We cannot not fly in our lives until we deal with the tethers of trying to please others. You may one day find yourself in the sixth decade of your life and still be grounded – until you do. What to do? All of us have these bonds from our childhood years when we could not feel good about ourselves unless we pleased our parents, caretakers, and teachers. As we grew older, this need transferred to our peers, our bosses, our co-workers, our government, our spouses, and even our children. As a result, instead of listening to ourselves and pleasing ourselves, we easily find that we spend our lives torn between pleasing first this person, and then another who holds quite different expectations for us than did the first or that we have for ourselves. The result is that we please no one, particularly ourselves. Your mother and father are still alive, living rent-free inside your head. So are those bullies that teased you when you were six. Which inner voices do we listen to, and when? Which voices is it time to evict?

Your inner compass shows up in both your dreams and the challenges daily life brings to you. It is always trying to wake you up to the craziness of trying to please others. Your inner compass is constantly trying to help you see how you keep yourself trapped and show you the way out. Are you listening?

In the following dream and interview, Beautiful Dreamer demonstrates how you can use IDL to better understand this predicament and grow into a life that feels free and authentic for you.

Tell me your dream:

Associations: 

I have no idea why I had this dream. I will end up interviewing two characters so I will change the color of their answers to make this easier to read. 

Owl, how would you score yourself from 0-10 in;

Acceptance 10 , wisdom 10 , compassion 10 , peace of mind 10 , confidence 10 and witness 10 .

One young lady had a nightmare of orcs, like those in Lord of the Rings. They  came up an elevator and were coming into her bedroom! Very scary! In fact, even after she was awake and knew they were “just dream orcs,” they were still too scary to interview.

When she did the orcs said that they had come to visit and have a cup of tea with her. They didn’t want to harm her. She woke up before they could let her know her intentions.

Why did they have to be so frightening? The interviewed orcs said, “Well, you wouldn’t have remembered the dream if you hadn’t gotten so scared that it woke you up!”

The orcs said that they represented parts of herself that she was afraid to listen to, that she was shutting out. By interviewing the orcs she integrated them into herself. She realized that she had been scaring herself!

This led to a conversation about how, by avoiding looking at and listening to the parts of ourselves that either scare us or that we are ashamed of, or that we dismiss as stupid or unimportant, we deprive ourselves of the opportunity to learn from exactly those emerging potentials that have the most to teach us.

IDL interviewing speeds up your growth process by identifying and neutralizing your resistances, whatever they are.

Moral: When a monster shows up in your dream, why not invite it in for a spot of tea?

Have you ever seen lovers as rescuers? Have you ever had trouble getting out of the Drama Triangle with lovers? This lady did!  She had a dream about a toilet!  When she wanted to sit on the toilet it sprouted legs and moved wherever it wanted! When she became the toilet in her IDL interview it sprouted wings and could fly wherever it wanted!    The toilet told her that she didn’t have to spend her life being “dumped on” by other people, especially lovers!

This amusing and graphic example provided an excellent example of cosmic humor, the ability to witness events from one or more non-invested perspectves that can see the drama of life as ironic, over-personalized, over-invested addiction to unnecessary suffering.  Such experiences help us to cultivate an attitude of cosmic humor toward ourselves and toward our lives. Images like flying toilets can help us not to take ourselves soooo seriously! Cosmic humor does not mean that you are flippant, dismissive of life or simply seeing life as an illusory, delusional dream to avoid. The exact opposite becomes more likely: as a result you are better able to invest yourself in your life because you are less defensive, scared, or attached to outcomes.

One participant in an IDL training module in November reported a dream in which she was sitting on the sand at a beautiful beach, enjoying herself. She looked down and worms were coming up out of the sand around her. Then she realized that the ground was hollow beneath her and that she was about to fall into a hole! That scared her awake.

Because we were teaching how to create Dream Sociomatrices she interviewed not only Dream Self, herself in the dream, but also the ocean, the beach, and the worms. She omitted the hole because it was “nothing” and scary.  Of course, what she was doing was avoiding listening to the “loudest” voice in her dream! So we had her go back and interview it as well. The hole said that it contained a “paradise.” If she would allow herself to fall in, she would find herself in a paradise!

What this lady took away from this interview was that she spends her time seeking to find comfort, recreation, and relaxation (being on the beach) in the context of her daily life. There is no problem with this except that it thereby avoids a “fall” into a state of being that will bring her happiness beyond her wildest dreams. This “space” exists close at hand, so close that she does not recognize it, but only “negative” indicators of something being “wrong.” But those are  misinterpretations. There is nothing negative about the “worms” in her life or “wrong” about either the hole or falling into it. But because she misinterprets this shift as a threat, she does everything she can to avoid it. She does not realize that moving toward what she fears is exactly what she needs to do in order to move into a transformational way of being.

Now, in the abstract we can all grasp this concept. But it is entirely another for us to personally experience the reality of that message ourselves. Are you willing to let go and fall into the abyss? Are you willing to “die” to be reborn? Few are. This is essentially the function of meditation: to practice dying so that you can be reborn.

For the new year, why not resolve to move toward whatever you fear?

How do we grow our sense of self? In some ways this is the same problem we experience with learning to be assertive: because we aren’t, assertiveness feels like aggressiveness. Similarly, when we lack a broader sense of who we are, any expansion is easy to experience as grandiose,  narcissistic, and selfish. Is it? How do we know? We can’t rely on most others – some will say we are fine the way we are; others will think we need to grow more. Others will warn us that we’ll get “too big for our britches.” The solution IDL offers is to “try on” the expanded world views of emerging potentials that supply us with authentic, yet expanded experiences of who we are.

In this instance, the Eiffel Tower would seem to be a frighteningly grandiose way of experiencing the world: it is a mecca for the masses, a monument to triumphalism and to technological prowess. It is also a shrine to French culture, which many people see as proud, distant, and arrogant. No one wants to be viewed in such a way.

Yet, what we discover in the interview is that there is a broad difference between how humans may tend to view the Eiffel Tower and how it views itself. The implication is that we are misjudging ourselves and our potentials and thereby limiting our ability to grow into an expanded sense  of self. That is why it is so important to “try on” various alternative self-definitions provided in your IDL interviews. Keep what fits; discard what does not. Follow the recommendations that are useful; ignore those that either are not or are a bridge too far.

This was a helpful interview in several unexpected ways. I was leading a group through interviews around the issue of guilt and, as I often do, I did an interview on myself at the same time. The image that came up, the Eiffel Tower, was so incongruous and unexpected that I had no inclination to interview it and no expectation that it would have any relevance whatsoever, despite years of being consistently being proven wrong on that score. However, I put my disbelief aside and stuck with the image in the interview.

The result was a way of looking at myself that is very different than how I have seen myself in the past or tend to see myself. The combination of rigidity and structure, on the one hand, and transparency and airiness is very intriguing, as are the contrasts of rootedness in the earth and elevation into sky. There is also a sense of technological remoteness that contrasts with the Eiffel Tower crawling with people and with life.  All of these contrasts were new ways of thinking about myself, and once again my best teachers turn out to be my own emerging potentials, which know me better than I know myself and better than anyone else ever can.

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

1 deeper meditation

2 more focus on editing

3 eating better; eating healthier

When you persecute yourself with guilt, what feelings come up for you?

Fear

If those feelings had a color (or colors), what would it be?

Baby shit brown

Imagine that color filling the space in front of you so that it has depth, height, width, and aliveness.

Now watch that color swirl, congeal, and condense into a shape. Don’t make it take a shape, just watch it and say the first thing that you see or that comes to your mind: An animal? Object? Plant? What?

The Eiffel Tower!

Now remember how as a child you liked to pretend you were a teacher or a doctor?  It’s easy and fun for you to imagine that you are the shape that took form from your color and answer some questions I ask, saying the first thing that comes to your mind.  If you wait too long to answer, that’s not the character answering – that’s YOU trying to figure out the right thing to say!

Eiffel Tower, look out at the world from your perspective and tell us what you see…

I am very stable. I am very tall. I am very stately. People are proud of me and I am proud of myself. I am a technological marvel that has stood the test of time.  I don’t have eyes, but I experience the world as metal and space in a lattice dance of space and form.

What do you like most about yourself? What are your strengths?

I like that I am an object that evokes aspiration and inspiration in humans.

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses?  What are they?

There’s nothing I dislike about myself. I am maintained very well, so I don’t have any weaknesses. I’m not afraid of anything.

Eiffel Tower, you are in Joseph’s life experience, correct?  He created you, right? What aspect of Joseph do you represent or most closely personify?

The power of his mind to inspire and evoke greatness.

Eiffel Tower, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change?  If so, how?

I like being who and what I am!

(Continue, answering as the transformed object, if it chose to change.)

Eiffel Tower, how would you score yourself 0-10, in each of the following six qualities: confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, inner peace, and witnessing?  Why?

Confidence: 10 Nothing can hurt me!

Compassion:   0 I am a structure; I don’t have a sense of self or selflessness.

Wisdom:   ? I don’t know. I don’t need to be wise. My job is to be stable and beautiful. That’s enough. I don’t need wisdom.

Acceptance: 10 What’s there not to accept? I have people climbing all over me; there’s rain, sunshine, ice, snow…so what??

Inner Peace: 10 Nothing disturbs my equanimity!

Witnessing: 10

Eiffel Tower, if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different?  If so, how?

I would be alive! I think I would be a human!

How would Joseph’s life be different if he naturally scored like you do in all six of these qualities all the time?

He would feel like me! Quite stately, elegant, proud, unfazed, powerful, anchored, important, aware, aesthetic, timeless!

If you could live Joseph’s life for him, how would you live it differently?

I would not take anything personally; I wouldn’t feel that anything was about me. I would feel powerful in my presence.

If you could live Joseph’s waking life for him/her today, would you handle Joseph’s three life issues differently?  If so, how?

1 Deeper meditation: I am in a meditative state. Become me; feel my spaciousness. Feel me reaching up into heaven and strongly anchored into the Earth!

2 More focus on editing: I am anchored in my purpose, in my role. I am expression of that. The more that you anchor yourself in your purpose and your role the more your writing will become your priority.

3 Eating better; eating healthier: Well, I don’t eat. But I am an interplay of air and the elements. I let things freely come and go. I am very heavy, but there is a great lightness about all of that.

What three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of Joseph’s life?

1. A sense of the eternal now.

2. A sense of great presence.

3. A sense of innate importance and worth.

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for Joseph to imagine that he is you and act as you would?

Whenever he wants to feel powerful and portray power and presence in the world.

Eiffel Tower, do you feel guilt?  If not, why not?

Nope! That’s ridiculous! It’s not part of my nature!

What do you recommend your human do to stay out of guilt?

Become me!

Eiffel Tower, you are imaginary. Why should your human pay attention to anything you say?

I score higher than you. That’s why.

Why do you think that you are in Joseph’s life?

I don’t do guilt, do I? My nature is a natural preventative!

If this experience were a wake-up call from your inner compass, what do you think it would be saying to you?

I could do worse than assume the characteristics of the Eiffel Tower. It will keep me out of guilt and take my confidence and sense of self to a higher level of presence and power.

Is there anything you want to take away from this interview to apply in your everyday life?

Become the Eiffel Tower when I meditate and whenever I want to feel powerful, present, and focused.

This is an excellent example of how IDL can throw relevant, significant light on dreams from many years before. In this case, it explains the how and why of a dream that repeated many times over many years.

Coincidentally, it is another interview that throws light on water as an often misperceived and misunderstood emerging potential that everyone can benefit from appreciating, becoming, and using to make their everyday life better.

Here is a reframing of what Moonlight told herself. It is different from what your own interview will reveal, but this one gives interesting insights into how passivity can block our development for years and yet can be quickly outgrown when we access emerging potentials that are confident and assertive.

There is a part of you that is passive and feels walked on, like it’s discarded rubbish. You are bored of being the receptacle for other people’s life garbage.

There is a way you can get out of that. You need to go through a process of purification, similar to a waste water purification plant. To the extent that you do that you will find yourself free, able to breathe, confident, alive, energetic, light and full of abundance. You will become confident because you will become the essence of life. What you have called compassion will become less important; a different type of compassion will emerge. You will feel like everything in your life is in its right place. You will no longer be ruled by your likes or dislikes. You will have inner peace because you will be in touch with who you most centrally are. Pollution will still exist, and be an issue, but not nearly as much as it was before. There will be an acceptance of it and a knowledge that it doesn’t really affect what you are.

You will take the far view. Because you are in touch with a part of yourself that does not die, you will not be concerned about things that trouble others. It is OK to not be worried about your future; Ocean Water doesn’t worry about its future either! It’s OK to be fearless and confident that things will work out, but you need to develop a plan about how you will change your financial circumstances.

Because you are no longer to be a passive dumping ground for others you can shape your life and allow others to have their lives shaped by your decisions. You have plans for your future financial security that you need to act on, instead of using your mother’s health, the divorce and its effect on your children, and the present financial security as reasons not to take action.  Begin moving toward renting out your mother’s two apartments by consulting with a friend that is in that business and talk to her mother about those apartments.

Continue to give your children consequences. Continue to say respectful goodbyes to your mother. Stay on your present course regarding the divorce; don’t allow yourself to be distracted by his aggression.

Here is Moonlight’s interview:

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

Finances

Emotionally

Career

Tell me a dream you remember. It can be an old one, a repetitive dream, a nightmare, or one that you’re sure you understand.

I am going to be taking exams for high school or college. I know I am going to have them in two weeks and I haven’t studied! There is a voice behind me saying, “What are you doing? You are having your exams in two weeks and you don’t know a thing! Why don’t you sit down and put your head in the books?”  Then I am so flabbergasted! I am really scared, but at the same time, daring to ignore danger. It’s like walking into a volcano, looking down, thinking, “It’s really hot!” And still jumping down. Thinking maybe, “Let’s see what the magma feels like.”

Then I am in between the written and the oral part of my exams. I think, “I don’t care that I don’t have both exams and don’t have full certification.”

Why do you think that you had this dream?

I haven’t had this dream any in the last year. Before that I sometimes had it every second night. I have had that dream for some twenty years, maybe 129 times!

I am presently sitting in my life like I am in the dream – doing nothing – not knowing where I will be financially in five years, and I don’t really care. Society tells us that we need to plan for the future. Another part of me says, “I do’t care a damn. It will work out.” But it’s scary. If you don’t do anything then it won’t work out in five years that everything will be OK.

What feelings does this issue bring up for you?

Flabbergasted!

If those feelings had a color (or colors), what would it be?

Green, brown, dirty!

If one character had something especially important to tell you, what would it be?

Soupy, dirty water in a street gutter!

Now remember how as a child you liked to pretend you were a teacher or a doctor?  It’s easy and fun for you to imagine that you are this or that character in your dream and answer some questions I ask, saying the first thing that comes to your mind.  If you wait too long to answer, that’s not the character answering – that’s YOU trying to figure out the right thing to say!

Soupy stuff, are you a representation of a feeling in Moonlight’s dream?

Yes.

Soup, would you please tell me about yourself and what you are doing?

There are dirt and leaves. I am a cold, dirty soup.

What do you like most about yourself? What are your strengths?

I don’t like anything about myself. I don’t want to be soup. I’m cold, dirty, the rubbish of the street, people walk on me. I am bored of being the end of civilization!

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses?  What are they?

The passiveness. I am being created by dust that flies by, flooding rain water, leaves that come down whenever they want. That’s boring!

Soupy stuff, what aspect of  Moonlight do you represent or most closely personify?

Being the soup pot for others to put their dirt in!

Soup, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change?  If so, how?

I would like to swim through the gutter and be processed into good drinking water and then flood into the ocean!

Imagine you have done that, Soup. What is that like now for you?

It is like going into a washing machine – going in dirty and coming out washed! I can breathe! I am free! I can flood! I am not ashamed of my looks! I am with others. There are fish and corals – nice surroundings! Not dark any more! The light is coming through. I’m blue! It’s nice!

(Continue, answering as the transformed object, if it chose to change.)

Ocean Water, how would you score yourself 0-10, in confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, peace of mind, and witnessing?  Why?

Confidence:        10 83% of the world is made out of me!  Because I am the essense of life!

Compassion:      8 I don’t care about those things anymore. Compassion is wonderful, but only humankind needs that! I like to be the habitat for fishes and corals, so there is compassion. I don’t even care when dirty ships drive through me.  Compassion is not an issue for me….

Wisdom:             10 Everything feels like it is its right place.

Acceptance:          9 It’s not a question anymore whether I like or dislike things; I am essential, so I can accept what comes!

Inner Peace:        9 I am essential; because I am essential I have deep peace.

Witnessing:        8 Sometimes I am a bit annoyed by polluting boats or sharks eating people. But it’s the circle of life. The pollution is annoying…But I can’t change it and I am so powerful!

Ocean Water, if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different?  If so, how?

It wouldn’t be much different. Even more accepting of what happens. Mankind, which invented polluting boats, will be gone in 30,000 years, but I will stay.

How would Moonlight’s life be different if she naturally scored like you do in all six of these qualities all the time?

I am a bit astonished that Moonlight is still relaxed concerning her situation. That comes from her Virgo and Saggitarius – the realistic planning…She would be even more relaxed and smooth. But she still is!  It’s the same feeling as in the dream – astonished worried!

And why are you worried about her, Ocean Water?

There is not really a plan about how she will change her circumstances regarding her job.

If you could live Moonlight’s life for her, what sort of a plan regarding a job would you create?

What’s most important to me is that Moonlight is no longer willing to be the soup bowl of the actions of others. If she goes into action, others will have to cope with her life choices, and not so much vice versa, as it has been.  Moonlight has ideas for her future financial security. She should just do it!

What keeps her from just doing it, Ocean Water?

The situation of her mother, which is getting worse and worse. Her children, who are not used to the divorce. They still have their flashbacks and are sad. Not presently having the financial needs due to savings she can live from. Moonlight’s idea is to rent out apartments that are furnished, starting with the one that her mother has, but she doesn’t want to kick her mother out of the apartment. In three to four months she will so be in her dementia it won’t matter. Moonlight wants to be respectful. Her mother is now living in a home for people with dementia. She’s not living in that apartment. There are two that are still the way her mother left them that Moonlight could begin moving toward renting out.

What do you think about that idea, Ocean Water?

There are many advantages. Why not? The apartments and furniture are there.

Ocean Water, how would you live Moonlight’s life differently?

Get out of the gully situation! Have the experience of the washing machine! Start letting her life flow!

If you could live Moonlight’s waking life for her/him today, would you handle her/his three life issues differently?  If so, how?

Finances

Get Started! The first step is to talk to her mother about her apartment. Talk to another lady who is doing the same.

Emotionally

I think she’s on a good way. Just keep it up! Giving her children consequences. Say respectful goodbyes to her mother, who is fading away. Regarding her X, stay on her current path for the divorce. Do not get distracted by his aggression.

Career

The apartment idea will take time, but that’s OK.

What three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of her life?

The same ones.

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for to imagine that she is you and act as you would?

Regularly for the next two months!

Why do you think that you are in Moonlight’s life?

Moonlight loves water

I think Moonlight had this dream because

there was this fear she couldn’t cope with society’s standards regarding her education. Once in a while she feels she wants to push the limits. It’s testing out. Why not check it out?? It’s different than her usual planning, rational personality! She went down a dark street when she was five to a traffic light and felt very brave. Then she went to the next traffic light, much farther away when she was a year older. She was crying all the way but she did it!  Her mother had confidence in her that she could handle things. And so she has confidence in herself!

I think this dream event happened or (some character) was in the dream because…

She was on this way to have her exam and all of a sudden it changes – the way her life was disrupted by her divorce. On the one hand she is astonished – “That isn’t my life plan!” On the other hand is the attractiveness – “Let’s see what is going to happen!” Then there is the worry that without training and a good family she won’t have a happy life. But I am here to let her know that she doesn’t need to think that way.

What have you heard yourself say?

I don’t want to be the soup pot for the dirt of others any more. The confidence to go through this sewage treatment plant and then being the ocean water – what a nice feeling! I can use this while meditating and coping with situations in everyday life.

If this experience were a wake-up call from your inner compass, what do you think it would be saying to you?

Don’t be shy about going through the cleansing process! You’ll end up knowing you are like ocean water!

As it turns out in the following interview, both nothing and everything.

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

1 Getting my books edited and published.

2 Strengthening the antidotes to drama: luminosity, cosmic humor, and abundance.

3 Deepening my meditation practice

Which issue brings up the strongest feelings for you?

A friend, Eugene Kovalenko, sent me two dreams he has had about Barak Obama. This was in response to a tirade of discouraged angst from me on how let down and disappointed I am in Obama as US President. He was prompted to interview his dream Obama, so, in the understanding that I am shadow boxing with an aspect of myself that I feel discouraged and disappointed in, I told him I would do the same.

So the feeling is disappointment

If those feelings had a color (or colors), what would it be?

Olive green.

Imagine that color filling the space in front of you so that it has depth, height, width, and aliveness.

Now watch that color swirl, congeal, and condense into a shape. Don’t make it take a shape, just watch it and say the first thing that you see or that comes to your mind: An animal? Object? Plant? What?

A green olive with a red pimento in it!

Now remember how as a child you liked to pretend you were a teacher or a doctor?  It’s easy and fun for you to imagine that you are the shape that took form from your color and answer some questions I ask, saying the first thing that comes to your mind.  If you wait too long to answer, that’s not the character answering – that’s YOU trying to figure out the right thing to say!

Green Olive, would you please tell me about yourself and what you are doing?

I am just hovering in Joseph’s mind’s eye. I’m a good looking olive, with an oil sheen. I will taste good, too.

What do you like most about yourself? What are your strengths?

I am perfectly myself.

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses?  What are they?

Nothing to dislike. No weaknesses.

What aspect of Joseph do you represent or most closely personify?

I have that same color, olive green, of his disappointment, but there’s nothing disappointing about me. You get what you expect when you bite into me, although I admit I am an acquired taste. Joseph didn’t like me when he was young and a lot of adults don’t. But of course I couldn’t care less.

Green Olive, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change?  If so, how?

I think I would be a jar of olives so that I would still be around when any individual “me” was eaten. Or maybe all olive trees so that I would really always be around. Yeah. I like that idea. All olive trees! With their olives!

(Continue, answering as the transformed object, if it chose to change.)

Olive trees, what the hell do you have to do with Barak Obama and Joseph’s disappointment in him?

How should I know? I didn’t create me!

Olive Trees, how would you score yourself 0-10, in each of the following six qualities: confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, inner peace, and witnessing?  Why?

Confidence: 10 Individual examples of us die but we as a species live on.

Compassion: 10 When compassion means “selflessness.”

Wisdom:   ? We are excellent at being olive trees.

Acceptance: 10

Inner Peace: 10

Witnessing: 10

Olive Tree, if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different?  If so, how?

I don’t think so.

How would Joseph’s life be different if he naturally scored like you do in all six of these qualities all the time?

Well, he certainly wouldn’t think about Barak Obama. He thinks he needs to stay knowledgeable about current events, but it’s all drama. It’s all the Drama Triangle. How does staying knowledgeable about any of that build his presence with the six core qualities? Hmmmm???

If you could live Joseph’s life for him, how would you live it differently?

I would live it like me. One with nature, one with his nature. I would let go of all that external drama that he has no control over anyway.

If you could live Joseph’s waking life for him today, would you handle Joseph’s three life issues differently?  If so, how?

1 Getting my books edited and published.

If he gave up his addiction to the news he might be surprised at how much more he found he could get accomplished.

2 Strengthening the antidotes to drama: luminosity, cosmic humor, and abundance.

Very good. Same response as above.

3 Deepening my meditation practice

Another good goal. Also same response as above.

What three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of Joseph’s life?

1. Letting go of drama.

2. Embracing the moment.

3. Living.

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for Joseph to imagine that he is you and act as you would?

When he catches himself in drama, out of the moment, or afraid of death.

Olive Trees, do you do drama?  If not, why not?

I am cycles of existence that transcend and include drama.

Why do you think that you are in Joseph’s life?

To help him get out of drama and live more fully.

How is Joseph most likely to ignore what you are saying to him?

Keep checking the news.

What would you recommend that he do about that?

I would cold turkey stop for a week, then re-evaluate.

Joseph, what have you heard yourself say?

I couldn’t see how an olive and then olive trees had anything to do with Barak Obama. The connection is clear to me now. My disappointment is a reaction within the Drama Triangle that wouldn’t happen if I wouldn’t go there. The Olive and the Olive Tree don’t go there. They don’t relate.

If this experience were a wake-up call from your inner compass, what do you think it would be saying to you?

Trust yourself. Let go of the drama of current events and see what happens to your goals for your life issues.

Is there anything you want to take away from this interview to apply in your everyday life?

Yeah. Stop reading the news on the internet.

This interview was a real surprise, although I long ago learned to suspend my assumptions about what is going to come up in one. I approached it with an interest in finding out how I react to a part of myself (Obama) and misjudge it, then project that out onto the real Obama, who I don’t respect at this point.  That is not what came up in this interview at all. When the olive green color of disappointment became an olive green, green olive I thought, “You’ve gotta be kidding. An image that is a concrete depiction of the color! How uncreative!” I was prepared for the interview to go nowhere. Then, when the olive said it had no clue what it had to do with Obama, I was sure the interview was going nowhere – a rarity in my experience.

It wasn’t until after the scoring that the message came through, but when it did,it was crystal clear:

How would Joseph’s life be different if he naturally scored like you do in all six of these qualities all the time?

Well, he certainly wouldn’t think about Barak Obama. He thinks he needs to stay knowledgeable about current events, but it’s all drama. It’s all the Drama Triangle. How does staying knowledgeable about any of that build his presence with the six core qualities? Hmmmm???

We all want to grow. We want to change. We want to become “enlightened,” whatever that is. But do we want to pay the price of growth? Are we really willing to change? Do we want to become enlightened – as long as it’s in our way and on our terms?

Following the thinking and the recommendation of Olive Trees – not to stay knowledgeable about current events – would mean a huge change in priorities for me. I spend a lot of time every day surfing the internet staying informed on topics of concern to me. These Olive Trees are not interested in Barak Obama per se, but with that entire perspective that makes Barak Obama a concern at all for me. I hadn’t expected that at all. This is a good example of what happens when you practice Integral Deep Listening: you may get more than you bargained for.

When you do get more than what you bargained for, what do you do?

I decided that while what Olive Tree said is probably true, that I am addicted to the drama of news, that its advice is extreme. Therefore, I decided to trust it and stop looking at the news for a week and to see what happens with my productivity during that week. Then I will re-evaluate and maybe find some modified position that is not so extreme. I’m pretty sure the Olive Tree will continue to voice its current extreme position, but it is only one of many of my emerging potentials. I can consult other high-scoring ones and see if they agree with Olive Tree or whether there is some way I can stay in touch without being addicted or affecting my productivity.  But so far, I’m surprised that I haven’t missed the news or the internet surfing. My theory is that because the change is supported from parts of myself that are more awake than I am, that it’s a natural vector for growth, meaning that I am encountering less resistance than I thought I would. If that is the case, the implications are similar for you: there are changes you can make in your life that you either have not considered or have dismissed as unrealistic or too difficult that you will find much easier than you expect – once you feel that support from parts of yourself that know you and love you more than you know and love yourself.

Thoughts or comments? Post them here!

Ever wish you could find a peaceful place within yourself to take refuge, something like a secret garden?

It’s funny how such a refuge can show up in our lives, but we are too busy, stressed, or preoccupied to notice or take advantage of it. Such is the case with Sunshine. Her garden showed up in a repetitive nightmare! While she takes refuge in it in her nightmare, she never learned to listen to it and so never recognized what a resource it could become for her in her daily life.

With this IDL interview, Sunshine’s first, she took the time to listen to and experience what it means for her life to actually experience living her life as that special garden. Hopefully, her interview will inspire you to find your own center and inner compass, so that you will always have a refuge from the storms of life whirling around you.

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

Partnership

To be in balance with myself – find inner peace

The relationship with my family

Tell me a dream you remember.  It can be an old one, a repetitive dream, a nightmare, or one that you’re sure you understand.

When I was about twelve I had a nightmare that I was running down the street with my smallest brother and my sister. Behind us were persecutors. We couldn’t escape; suddenly we became smaller and we could hide in a little garden.

Why do you think that you had this dream?

I had many dreams where I wanted to run away but I couldn’t but I don’t know why.

If one character had something especially important to tell you, what would it be?

Garden

Now remember how as a child you liked to pretend you were a teacher or a doctor?  It’s easy and fun for you to imagine that you are this or that character in your dream and answer some questions I ask, saying the first thing that comes to your mind.  If you wait too long to answer, that’s not the character answering – that’s YOU trying to figure out the right thing to say!

Garden, are you a character in Sunshine’s dream, yes?

Yes.

Garden, would you please tell me about yourself and what you are doing?

I am small and green but I have many plants and flowers in me.  There are trees. If you are in me you can’t see the sky because of the trees. There are also birds.

What do you like most about yourself? What are your strengths?

I like most that people can come into me and calm down and escape from what is outside of me.  I am a very relaxing place.

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses?  What are they?

Actually, not. I am happy as I am.

Garden, what aspect of Sunshine do you represent or most closely personify?

A place inside her where she can relax and be calm.  It’s not so big in her but it’s there.

Garden, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change?  If so, how?

I would grow and become much bigger. I have a little lake in me now. The trees are much bigger but you can see the sky now in places. There is much more space. It’s not so crowded.

(Continue, answering as the transformed object, if it chose to change.)

Garden, how would you score yourself 0-10, in confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, peace of mind, and witnessing?  Why?

Confidence: 8 I am scared that someone could set me on fire and then I wouldn’t exist any more. But eight is a high score. I  basically have a pretty confident score.

Compassion: 5 Everyone can come into me, regardless.

Wisdom: 7

Acceptance: 10 I accept myself as I am so I do so with others. I don’t judge.

Inner Peace: 10 I am the inner peace! To see me you can’t think of anything else but to be at peace!

Witnessing: 10 Because I’m so big I can see almost everything…If someone wants to go inside me he can; if not he doesn’t have to.

Garden, if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different?  If so, how?

Then I don’t have any fear that I could be harmed. I have that much more inner peace!

How would Sunshine’s life be different if she naturally scored like you do in all six of these qualities all the time?

She would not have so many worries and thoughts. She would calm down and see the beauty, just to be aware that she is there and doesn’t need to change.

If you could live Sunshine’s life for her, how would you live it differently?

She would go inside herself more and not be influenced so much by things outside of herself.  She would focus on finding her own inner peace.

If you could live Sunshine’s waking life for her today, would you handle her three life issues differently?  If so, how?

Partnership – I would be a lot more relaxed, not worry about it. Let it happen, not worry about it so much. She’s always thinking about stuff that is not really important.

To be in balance with myself – find inner peace

If she were to imagine that she is me then she would have the balance and inner peace that she seeks.

The relationship with my family

She often wants to change her family members, so if she became me there wouldn’t be so much fighting and struggle. If she were me she would just let it happen and see that she can’t change her family members.

What three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of her life?

The same

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for Sunshine to imagine that she is you and act as you would?

When she is worrying! It doesn’t matter if it’s about the future, her family, her partnership.

Would creating a little garden help her, garden?

A small plant or so; also to be in gardens or parks.

How is Sunshine most likely to ignore what you are saying to her?

She won’t forget about me!

I think this dream event happened or (some character) was in the dream because…

She wants to find this balance in her life. The fact that she created me shows that there is a bit of me in her already. She wants to have more of that balance. She wants to have me to get away from feelings of persecution.

What have you heard yourself say?

It is good to have an inner balance, an interior place to calm down.  To have this garden to be when I get worried or get anxious. To go inside of me and see that there is a calm point and to see her circumstances from my point of view so that she will react differently. Also, to be in nature because that also brings her balance.

If this experience were a wake-up call from your inner compass, what do you think it would be saying to you?

Search for you inner peace!

Notice that Sunshine has given herself a beautiful centering tool, not only for stressful waking situations, such as family arguments or concerns about partnerships, but also for meditation! When she becomes her garden she becomes an experience, an energy, a perspective that is already authentically and organically who she is. It speaks to her. It is something that she can trust as an expression of her own inner compass. While centering tools offered by others can be helpful and can also be used, having one’s own authentic and ever present inner sanctuary is a port in the storm of life.

Sunshine is young and just starting out her adult life.  How would our lives have been different if we had found our inner compass and followed it earlier in our lives? This is why we need to do interviews with the young people in our lives – to ground them in their own truth and inner beauty so that they will never feel lost, alone, or powerless for long.

You have stress. Who doesn’t? But there are parts of you that deal with stress much better than “you” do. Why not access them to learn to relax and balance in the middle of the hurricane of your life? Here’s one humorous example that hopefully will inspire you to find creative solutions within yourself. Comments follow.

What are fundamental life issue that you are dealing with now in your life?

I am very stressed; we are opening a club with a monthly overhead of 60,000.00 Euros.

If those feelings had a color (or colors), what would it be?

A mixed group of colors…

Imagine that color filling the space in front of you so that it has depth, height, width, and aliveness.

Now watch that color swirl, congeal, and condense into a shape. Don’t make it take a shape, just watch it and say the first thing that you see or that comes to your mind: An animal? Object? Plant? What?

A very active, hyper chihuahua!

Now remember how as a child you liked to pretend you were a teacher or a doctor?  It’s easy and fun for you to imagine that you are the shape that took form from your color and answer some questions I ask, saying the first thing that comes to your mind.  If you wait too long to answer, that’s not the character answering – that’s YOU trying to figure out the right thing to say!

Chihuahua, would you please tell me about yourself and what you are doing?

I am running all around! I am naturally hyper!

What do you like most about yourself? What are your strengths?

The stress of me running around everywhere more bothers the humans I live with – not me!

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses?  What are they?

Sometimes I would like to be bigger to get up stairs and so no one would step on me.  If I could be a bigger dog sometimes, that would be better!

Chihuahua, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change?  If so, how?

If I could be a St. Bernard that would be good!

St. Bernard, Ted created you, right? What aspect of Ted do you represent or most closely personify?

The chilled, laid back Ted, with a good overview…

St. Bernard, what’s it like to be you?

It’s cool to be real big and have long hair. No one steps on me, everyone sees me. It’s fun seeing life from this perspective! I have a good overview. I lay back and look at everything. I feel like I have control!

Switch back to being a Chihuahua…

I prefer being a St. Bernard!

(Continue, answering as the transformed object, if it chose to change.)

St. Bernard, how would you score yourself 0-10, in each of the following six qualities:  confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, inner peace, and witnessing?  Why?

Confidence: 10 I’m doing good! I feel smart, big, strong, relaxed. I always have food on my table. My humans like me a lot…

Compassion:   8 I have compassion but I also like being by myself. I like support but I don’t give up everything I want to help others. In the end my Schnuki ball is most important!

Wisdom: 10 I already have seen a lot. I’m a pretty wise dog.

Acceptance: 10 I accept myself! The way I am is perfect!

Inner Peace: 10 I feel good! There’s nothing I would want to change.

Witnessing:   8 If the drama was about my food I couldn’t stand back and watch!!!

St. Bernard, if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different?  If so, how?

I wouldn’t change much…

How would Ted’s life be different if he naturally scored like you do in all six of these qualities all the time?

He would be more chilled and have inner peace even with stress during a busy day. But I don’t have the stresses that he does!

If you could live Ted’s life for him, how would you live it differently?

I wouldn’t change too much. Even if he is stressed out he can take out some time and play around with a Schnucki Ball…!!!

If you could live Ted’s waking life for him today, would you handle Ted’s life issues differently?  If so, how?

1.  Regarding the club, I think he should do it. He might regret the rest of his life if he didn’t do it. I can’t say it’s 100% right decision. There are risks.

2. Sleeping alone: I would try to sleep more alone to practice. But he doesn’t sleep well and is fucked up the next day when he does…

3. Regarding flying, I wouldn’t be scared! Why??

St. Bernard, what life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of Ted’s life?

Having a balance between work and home.

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for Ted to imagine that he is you and act as you would?

Too stressed out or tries to sleep alone.

Character, do you do drama?  If not, why not?

No. It’s too stressful.

What is your secret for staying out of drama?

Life has too much meaning to waste in drama!

Ted, what have you heard yourself say?

The St. Bernard told me that it would be good to become him. It will support me in staying out of stress and pressure. He is a good support!

Why should Ted listen to an imaginary St. Bernard?

For one thing, it scores higher than he does in core qualities of waking up.

If he does, he’ll grow. He’ll be more awake, alive, balanced, detached, free, and clear. That’s because he’ll be more confident, compassionate, wise, accepting, at peace, and objective. Not bad.

Every time you interview a source of stress in your life, an anger, disappointment, sadness, or fear, or a character from a dream or nightmare using the simple IDL interviewing protocol, you will expand your sense of self to include those pressures that before seemed beyond your control. That’s what Ted has done; his job now is to trust his St. Bernard and follow his advice. Find your own inner canine (or whatever) and do the same!