When a man’s an empty kettle 
He should be on his mettle 
And yet I’m torn apart 
Just because I’m presumin’ 
That I could be a human 
If I only had a heart 

I’d be tender, I’d be gentle 
And awful sentimental 
Regarding love and art 
I’d be friends with the sparrows  
And the boy that shoots the arrows 
If I only had a heart 

Picture me a balcony 
Above a voice sings low 

Wherefore art thou, Romeo? 

I hear a beat, how sweet! 

Just to register emotion, jealousy, devotion 
And really feel the part 
I could stay young and chipper 
And I’d lock it with a zipper 
If I only had a heart 

(From the Wizard of Oz)

Do you ever feel that your thoughts keep your feelings in a cage? Are you ever afraid that if you let your feelings show that you’ll only get hurt? If you do, join the club. So do most people. But what to do about it? Follow one beautiful young lady’s adventure in listening to her heart to learn to trust it and let it come alive in her life…

Heart, do you want to change? If so, how?

I want to be pink and rosy and float, be in connection with the rest of the body. 

So here’s the theme: this emerging potential is pushing you with this depression to wake you up to this disconnection; what it is wanting you to do is take steps that connect your feelings, which are your life blood, to the rest of your body, to the rest of your life. This is a framing of the central issue: how you are stuck and what you need to get unstuck, from the perspective of this one emerging potential. Again, this is not a revelation, but it is what is suggested as the preferred way for you to think about your depression and how to solve it – from one of many possible emerging potentials.

Fear blocks your connection to life:

I am trying to be connected to the rest of the body but the blood is blocked. I would like it to be normal again.  Maybe the fear of giving up the things that Rachael has thought about, the cool knowledge that she has gotten recently.

You are told that you have a tendency to explain and analyze your feelings rather than feel them:

They are too rational. They don’t create any space for emotions. She thinks she can explain emotions so there is no space to feel them.  I think that it’s a very messed up situation! I would show the other parts of the body that I’m a very cute pink heart, that I would like to share my blood throughout and not block it away. I would like the feet to try out seeing what it feels like to have my blood pump out to Rachael’s feet.

Your stuckness seems to be related to focusing on looking good and sounding good rather than focusing on connectivity:

I’m kind of an attractive heart… I’m actually quite confident because I look good! I’m a long, slender, female heart with long hair!…I’m not pumping so much blood. I’m looking pretty! I’m looking at myself and observing the situation…

This was a theme in Dragonfly’s remarks as well.

“I take care of myself but sometimes not enough. I know what I should do in order to be healthier but I’m not doing it.”

You will get concrete help in what to focus on to most effectively move through those roadblocks so that you will not only be healthier, but healthier in ways that are foundational, or most important for building health in body, mind, relationships, career, and spirit. So, from the perspective of this particular emerging potential, what is the key to better health?

What should you do in order to be healthier that you aren’t doing?

Let feelings in and through that make me feel more alive…A rosier heart would be healthier but I’m more mature than a rosy heart, so I intentionally don’t want to become a rosy heart again because I would take a step back and become a child again. 

What your heart says next is a very powerful statment of how you have built up a strong, effective persona, or exterior personality or “mask” that is very effective, but you know is not a reflection of how you see yourself – out of touch with your feelings and not as wise as you appear to be. This difference undermines your self-confidence. It robs you of the connectivity that is your life and your feelings.

Because I tend to think of myself as being very intelligent and wise but I often realize I’m not really. I put myself in a higher position than I actually am. I can’t be completely wise because there is no blood inside me. 

I’m not in a flow. I got a little stiff…my outside looks really hard, like a plastic coating. That’s why I can’t pump correctly. That’s why it takes a lot of energy to pump a little bit of blood. Then I need a break.

Your “persona,” or exterior presentation makes you look good, and it seems to help, but from the perspective of the parts of yourself that desire connection and emotional flow, it’s Scheiße. (That’s a technical term; I wouldn’t expect you to understand..Ha Ha!!)

This seems to be supported by what the plastic has to say about itself:

I have to keep the heart in its shape. If it weren’t for me the heart would expand…Maybe it would be too soft.  It wouldn’t look as good any more. It would be out of the neat shape. It would be so soft that it would get hurt by something that pinched it or poked it.

Notice that the plastic does not indicate it has intrinsic worth. It’s worth is based on the reinforcement of others:

Heart, how do you feel about having this plastic around you?

I like it because other people like it.

But that is not a healthy model. Heart says:

But I don’t enjoy it because I can’t really breathe. When I lose it for a second there is air on my skin and I can expand. It takes my air away. I sweat underneath that plastic coating.

You are already outgrowing your need to protect your Heart:

Heart, will you be without your plastic coating for a minute and tell me what that’s like?

It’s tickling because it feels like I’m on a trampoline, bouncing around… I don’t feel as gooey as I thought I would be. I’m more muscular than I thought I would be. I have a round shape. I thought I would be completely flat and wobbly and hang  or lie on some imaginary street inside the body. I’m harder than I thought. I’m not lying. I’m standing.    

Now go back and have the plastic around you and tell me what that’s like for you…

Now I don’t feel like it fits me any more. Now there is some air inside it; it’s too big for me now.

The fact that as Heart you were able to experience yourself as being connected means that your prognosis is good: you will outgrow your depression, or you would not have had the following:

Heart, if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different?  If so, how?

I would look different. I would be really white! l would be fulfilled. I would use my full potentials. I would be pumping blood. I might not be connected with each and every vein inside her body but the main ones at least and they could get the blood to the smaller ones. I would be getting blood to and from her feet. I wouldn’t have plastic around me. I can control my shape myself. I can expand and breathe. I can become smaller. I can pump blood much better without it. 

How would Rachael’s life be different if she naturally scored like you do in all six of these qualities all the time?

She would be happier but I can’t really feel it right now. 

What this tells us is that you are blocking yourself from feeling and experiencing the connectivity that is wanting to be born within you. You may be doing so because you may think that to do so would be to regress to a less rational, vulnerable earlier stage of your life; you may be doing so because it is scary; you may be doing so because you get a lot of reinforcement by keeping your head in control and repressing your emotions.  It could be all of the above.

There are concrete recommendations in the interview for you to test in your life:

• be somewhere in nature with her so that I can get really good oxygen.

• find the other hearts of them and bond so intensively with them that (you) wouldn’t have to question them any more. I would know how their hearts looked and they would know how mine looked. She would be sure that they didn’t want to lose her.

The best way I know to do this is to do IDL interviews with your friends.

• There is an issue of fear of loneliness. The recommendation is to move toward connection with others, including your x-boyfriend:

What type of connection would you like to have with her x-boyfriend, heart?

A good one! Even if they weren’t together! Let both hearts know each other to always rely on each other! 

• I would focus on the relationship with her mother, whether it is healthy.

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for Rachael to imagine that she is you and act as you would? 

 When she was talking to her parents, hoping so much and trying so hard to be activated but doesn’t feel emotionally free. Her heart plays a tiny role in everything she says because it’s blocked. It would really be good for her to feel empathy when she’s talking to her father or her mother. Maybe because it would hurt when her father told her about himself and his life. She would let it sink into her heart. 

These are recommendations you can test in your life by putting aside your doubts and trying them out. You have nothing to lose by trying them, and you may find yourself surprised that they do indeed help. But in any case, you won’t know unless you take some risks and try.

Besides, you are told that it would be very good for you:

It would be healthy. She wouldn’t get so many headaches. It would give her head relief. She could work halfway head, halfway to her chest. 

So, the way you find out if this is all crazy or real is to follow the recommendations and see if you have fewer headaches and find if you are working more from your chest!

If this experience were a wake-up call from your inner compass, what do you think it would be saying to you?

That I’m too scared to really try…to scared to make the wrong move. It’s telling me that I need to try. Maybe I’m blocking everything out because I’m too scared of getting hurt. But if I don’t get hurt I won’t feel joy either.

Is there anything you want to take away from this interview to apply in your everyday life?

I shouldn’t be so scared…

Here are some other comments about the interview, followed by the actual interview:

Integral Deep Listening interviews don’t tell us things we don’t already know. They aren’t designed to. We already know in our inner compass who and what we are. So do our emerging potentials. Instead, IDL interviews are designed to clarify the priorities of our emerging potentials – parts of ourselves that are trying to be born within us.

It is very easy to underestimate the power of getting to know our emerging potentials. It is rather like the wind – easy to ignore, but when harnessed can provide huge amounts of energy. The reason they can be so powerful is that they save you much time and pain in your life by offering you shortcuts to figuring out how best to spend your time and your life. Most people spend their lives collecting experiences that tell them more about what they don’t want to do with their lives and who they don’t want to spend time with and who they don’t want to be, instead of doing what they want to do, spending time with healthy people, and being who they most centrally are.

This interview was much longer than usual because we needed to shift and interview more than one emerging potential, first your dragonfly, then your heart, then the plastic, then the heart again. Also, it will get faster as you get more comfortable with pretending and being spontaneous – having fun being in role, instead of having long pauses in which you try to micromanage the process. There are multiple benefits of learning this skill set. It gets you out of your head a bit more every time you do it; it teaches you to trust yourself; it broadens your sense of who you are; it strengthens the voices of parts of yourself you normally ignore or repress.

There were a number of recommendations that came out of this interview. I’m going to list them for you and suggest how you can create an action plan to test their effectiveness for your life as well as test the effectiveness of IDL dream yoga in general. I’m also going to make comments on each part of the interview to help you understand it and use it and future interviews you do for yourself or others.

Your three life issues are designed for the interview to be practical – to tie in to the concerns that are most important for you today, whenever you do an interview.

Picking the most important issue to you and looking at the feelings is a way to getting at the heart of where you are stuck, what is draining your energy, where you are most in inner conflict. The idea is to assume it is a wake-up call and listen to it, to respect a hurting part of yourself, to welcome it into a growing definition of who you are.

It does not matter what you choose. Don’t try to choose the “right” or “best” thing; simply assume that whatever comes up is what you need to listen to and trust that if it isn’t, that it will lead you to something better, as the Dragonfly pretty quickly led us to interviewing your heart.

These images are metaphors; they say that your stuck feeling is in someway like a dragonfly, in some ways like your heart and how it expresses its condition.

That your heart states there is no blood in it is a way of saying that the part of yourself that is personified by your heart – your feelings – is devoid of life. This is something you know, but now you have a powerful visual metaphor to use to experience your stuckness and to change your relationship with your feelings by changing the blood flow to your heart and experiencing the difference.

Read over the interview sometimes before going to sleep…

Here is the actual interview:

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

1 I would love it if the fears of my three best friends – that they won’t always be there. I won’t want to be afraid of losing them.  I do not want to be afraid that I am not as fun and interesting as I used to be. If I knew they would always be by my side no matter what, that would make a huge difference.

2 For me to decide on a skill or career for my future that fulfills me.

3 Be able to let go of the relationship with my x-boyfriend. I feel that the breakup wouldn’t have happened if I had stayed normal. It would be nice to be able to let go of it.

Which issue brings up the strongest feelings for you?

The first. My good friends are changing, moving.  I am not as confident as I used to be. I would hope that they would always be by my side.

What feelings does this issue bring up for you? 

Sad

If those feelings had a color (or colors), what would it be?

Violet or purple.

 Imagine that color filling the space in front of you so that it has depth, height, width, and aliveness.  

Now watch that color swirl, congeal, and condense into a shape. Don’t make it take a shape, just watch it and say the first thing that you see or that comes to your mind: An animal? Object? Plant? What? 

Dragonfly

Now remember how as a child you liked to pretend you were a teacher or a doctor?  It’s easy and fun for you to imagine that you are the shape that took form from your color and answer some questions I ask, saying the first thing that comes to your mind.  If you wait too long to answer, that’s not the character answering – that’s YOU trying to figure out the right thing to say!

Dragonfly, look out at the world from your perspective and tell us what you see… 

The world looks strange because my eyes are round. Everything is bent! It’s purple! I see the top of trees!

would you please tell me about yourself and what you are doing?

I’m flying around. I’m from India or Africa.   I think I might be in Florida. 

What do you like most about yourself? What are your strengths?

I like how firm my body is. I like that I have different segments to my body. I like that I’m quite quick, that I can go up and down! My quickness allows me to duck away from danger or obstacles. When the wind is blowing with me I am faster than most other flying animals because I am so light. 

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses?  What are they?

I don’t like the noisy “zzzzz” sound that I make. It’s not a nice sound. I don’t like that my end is so long and pointy. It scares some people. Maybe I don’t like that some birds eat me! 

Dragonfly, you are in Rachael’s life experience, correct?  She created you, right? What aspect of Rachael do you represent or most closely personify?

A fear that she has…It has to do with her heart. 

Dragonfly, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change?  If so, how?

A woman’s shoe with a high heel! But no; because then I would be stiff and someone would put their stinky foot into me! 

I’ll be her heart.

Are you depressed, heart?

I am not as rosy as a heart usually is. I’m more lethargic. My color is more darkish red, greyish. Rachael is not feeling me any more. We aren’t connected as much as we should be. She is in her head too much instead of in her body and inside me. 

Why?

There is no blood inside me. I don’t like my situation. I don’t want to be darkish grey. I don’t have enough blood in me.

Do you want to change? If so, how?

I want to be pink and rosy and float, be in connection with the rest of the body. 

Imagine that is happening. How does that feel for you, heart?

It’s better than to be stagnant and lie around stiff.  I have fresh blood. I look better. It’s warmer. It smells like blood!  I am trying to be connected to the rest of the body but the blood is blocked. I would like it to be normal again.  Maybe the fear of giving up the things that Rachael has thought about, the cool knowledge that she has gotten recently.

Why would she have to give up those thoughts?

They are too rational. They don’t create any space for emotions. She thinks she can explain emotions so there is no space to feel them.  I think that it’s a very messed up situation! I would show the other parts of the body that I’m a very cute pink heart, that I would like to share my blood throughout and not block it away. I would like the feet to try out seeing what it feels like to have my blood pump out to Rachael’s feet.

Would you be willing to pump out blood to Rachael’s feet…

I’m sending it out to her right foot…

Right foot: I’m not feeling it…

Why not???

The heart went away. It’s not pink any more. It’s black again…I prefer being black because it’s easier for Rachael to imagine the color. I want to be a purple color. I’m not pumping so much blood. I’m looking pretty! I’m looking at myself and observing the situation. 

Are you happy or do you want to change again?  

I’m kind of an attractive heart.

(Continue, answering as the transformed object, if it chose to change.)

(Character), how would you score yourself 0-10, in each of the following six qualities:  confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, inner peace, and witnessing?  Why?

Confidence: 8 I’m actually quite confident because I look good! I’m a long, slender, female heart with long hair! 

  Compassion: 6 I take care of myself but sometimes not enough. I know what I should do in order to be healthier but I’m not doing it. The knowledge of what I need to do is already part of your compassion. 

What should you do in order to be healthier that you aren’t doing?

Let feelings in and through that make me feel more alive…A rosier heart would be healthier but I’m more mature than a rosy heart, so I intentionally don’t want to become a rosy heart again because I would take a step back and become a child again. 

Wisdom: 4 Because I tend to think of myself as being very intelligent and wise but I often realize I’m not really. I put myself in a higher position than I actually am. I can’t be completely wise because there is no blood inside me. 

Acceptance: 6 I am accepting that there are different hearts with different shapes but I am not completely happy with how I’m living life though it seems like it from the outside. I would like to be more compassionate and warmer. I somehow can’t be. So that’s why I’m not accepting myself. I accept other hearts a 7 but for myself a 5.

Inner Peace: ? I know how it is for Rachael – 3 – but I don’t know what it is for me. On the outside I look so shiny and nice but I don’t know how I look from the inside. I can’t really feel it. I keep looking from the outside. I am like a heart standing in front of a mirror.         

Witnessing: 4 Sometimes I feel a little whoosh of blood flowing in but it quickly fades…I’m not in a flow. I got a little stiff…my outside looks really hard, like a plastic coating. That’s why I can’t pump correctly. That’s why it takes a lot of energy to pump a little bit of blood. Then I need a break.

Plastic Coating, What’s your job description?

I have to keep the heart in its shape. If it weren’t for me the heart would expand…Maybe it would be too soft.  It wouldn’t look as good any more. It would be out of the neat shape. It would be so soft that it would get hurt by something that pinched it or poked it.  

Your job is to protect the heart, is that correct?

I can shift my shape sometimes. If the heart wants to be longer with a pattern on it  or have a dent, I can shift it’s shape. It just tells me how it wants to be.

Heart, how do you feel about having this plastic around you?

I like it because other people like it. But I don’t enjoy it because I can’t really breathe. When I lose it for a second there is air on my skin and I can expand. It takes my air away. I sweat underneath that plastic coating. But I like being in that shape. Other organs think, “Oh wow! This is a good looking heart!” If it wasn’t for this plastic maybe I would be really flat. Just lie around, not stand up so straight. 

Heart, will you be without your plastic coating for a minute and tell me what that’s like?

It’s tickling because it feels like I’m on a trampoline, bouncing around… I don’t feel as gooey as I thought I would be. I’m more muscular than I thought I would be. I have a round shape. I thought I would be completely flat and wobbly and hang  or lie on some imaginary street inside the body. I’m harder than I thought. I’m not lying. I’m standing.    

Now go back and have the plastic around you and tell me what that’s like for you…

Now I don’t feel like it fits me any more. Now there is some air inside it; it’s too big for me now. 

Shift back to no plastic again. What’s that like for you now, heart? 

The plastic is back and now it’s fitting.   

Heart, if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different?  If so, how?

I would look different. I would be really white! l would be fulfilled. I would use my full potentials. I would be pumping blood. I might not be connected with each and every vein inside her body but the main ones at least and they could get the blood to the smaller ones. I would be getting blood to and from her feet. I wouldn’t have plastic around me. I can control my shape myself. I can expand and breathe. I can become smaller. I can pump blood much better without it. 

How would Rachael’s life be different if she naturally scored like you do in all six of these qualities all the time?

She would be happier but I can’t really feel it right now. 

If you could live Rachael’s life for him/her, how would you live it differently?

I would be somewhere in nature with her so that I can get really good oxygen. 

If you could live Rachael’s waking life for him/her today, would you handle Rachael’s three life issues differently?  If so, how?

I would love it if the fears of my three best friends – that they won’t always be there. I won’t want to be afraid of losing them.  I do not want to be afraid that I am not as fun and interesting as I used to be. If I knew they would always be by my side no matter what, that would make a huge difference.

I would hope to find the other hearts of them and bond so intensively with them that she wouldn’t have to question them any more. I would know how their hearts looked and they would know how mine looked. She would be sure that they didn’t want to lose her. 

Be able to let go of the relationship with my x-boyfriend. I feel that the breakup wouldn’t have happened if I had stayed normal. It would be nice to be able to let go of it.

For me it’s not so easy for me to let go of that either, because it’s my nature to want connection! 

Cries…

What’s she sad about, heart?

The x-boyfriend…The fear of losing somebody and being alone and the ego or because she really misses him…I think she actually is missing him…

Why is it hard for her to think that?

It would hurt so much. If you want someone who really suits you, you might have to search longer and you don’t know how it happens. 

What type of connection would you like to have with her x-boyfriend, heart?

A good one! Even if they weren’t together! Let both hearts know each other to always rely on each other! 

What three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of Rachael’s life?

Her home town – why she doesn’t have this strong binding to a home town like many other people have. 

I would focus on the relationship with her mother, whether it is healthy. Why it didn’t used to be healthy. Is it better now or just the surface that changed?

Her connection with her x-boyfriend. 

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for Rachael to imagine that she is you and act as you would? 

 When she was talking to her parents, hoping so much and trying so hard to be activated but doesn’t feel emotionally free. Her heart plays a tiny role in everything she says because it’s blocked. It would really be good for her to feel empathy when she’s talking to her father or her mother. Maybe because it would hurt when her father told her about himself and his life. She would let it sink into her heart. 

Heart, you are imaginary. Why should your human pay attention to anything you say?

It would be healthy. She wouldn’t get so many headaches. It would give her head relief. She could work halfway head, halfway to her chest. 

Why do you think that you are in Rachael’s life? 

She has been thinking about me. I have wanted to talk. 

Have you gotten to say pretty much what you’ve wanted to say, heart?

Yes.

How is Rachael most likely to ignore what you are saying to her?

She ignores it when she starts to think again! 

What would you recommend that she do about that?

She’s very focused on her head. 

Heart, do you think and feel at the same time?

Yes. Probably. No…Actually…It’s possible that the heart is even a little bit more intelligent than the head! 

Thank you, (Character!) And now a couple questions for your human:

If this experience were a wake-up call from your inner compass, what do you think it would be saying to you?

That I’m too scared to really try…to scared to make the wrong move. It’s telling me that I need to try. Maybe I’m blocking everything out because I’m too scared of getting hurt. But if I don’t get hurt I won’t feel joy either.

Is there anything you want to take away from this interview to apply in your everyday life?

I shouldn’t be so scared…

Imagine that you are walking across a field where cattle graze.

You are having to watch your step, because there have been many cows in this field, which means that there are lots of cow pies. Some are old and dry; some are new, squishy and, “aromatic.” So you are not alone in this field. Besides the cows and the cow pies, there are also flies.

You have been given a job to do and you’ve been at it as long as you can remember. Who gave you this job is not so important. What is important is that you have been doing it and that it is important to you to do it. Like everyone, you justify what you do. Gathering cow pies is important as a source of energy, to have light, warmth, and to cook with.

You are carrying a big burlap bag over your shoulder. In the morning, when you set out, the bag is empty and light. The weather is cool but not cold, the sun is shining, and it is easy to see where you are going as you cross the field. Your job is to pick up the next cow pie you come to and put it in your burlap bag, sling your sack back over your shoulder, and move on to the next one. Some of the cow pies you come across are hard, dry and easy to pick up. Others are soft, watery, and oozy, and these you have to scoop up with the shovel you are also carrying and put the slop into your bag. So you set about your task.

As the day wears on, your bag gets heavier. You start to bend under your load, but, because you are not a quitter, you keep on going. The sun is bright and it’s warming up. You notice that you don’t smell the way you did when you started out in the morning. You have taken on the distinct odor of a big farm animal. The flies are very attracted to you, buzzing all around you and your bag. By the time it gets dark you are staggering under your load. You stink. You can’t see very well and so you step into a cow pie every now and then. Exhausted, in the darkness you put down your load and fall asleep.

What’s going on here? The experiences that you “collect” over the course of your day are certainly not cow pies. They are important, valuable, and helpful, designed to lighten your burden and those of others, not add to it. Still, if you examine them a little more closely, you may find that cow pies can be very creative and clever in how they masquerade as things like frisbees, chocolate ice cream, food, and money, health crises, as activities like good jobs, dream vacations, religions, and as people like politicians, media pundits, soul mates, and experts of various sorts. They can even masquerade as meditation and selflessness! Cow pies bring up important feelings as we gather them: anger, fear, confusion, sadness, and guilt.  Sometimes you find that your life experiences go sour and stink. They can weigh you down, like good food, even if you enjoy it. The things you pick up and carry start to define you. In time they become a burden that limits your energy and freedom.

Most of us are trapped into fulfilling familial, social, and cultural expectations. We grew up around people who collected certain types of cow pies and never questioned the usefulness or importance of doing so. It’s something that we have done for so long, like eating, answering the phone, or driving, that we don’t think about it much; we just do it. We don’t stop to ask, “Do I need to pick up this cow pie?” “If I do will it add to the weight I’m carrying? Do I need to carry more weight?” “Do I need to smell like cow crap?” “Do I deserve to spend my life in a swarm of flies?” “Can I stop collecting these cow pies, even if I wanted to?”

Someone from the Pleiades would shake their head and think, “What a waste of time! They wouldn’t understand how powerful habit and addiction can be. Picking up cow pies has defined you for so long that you can’t imagine who you would be if you didn’t set out across that field every morning with your sack. It is something that you have been given to do. It’s your responsibility, so you keep up your life, like a gambler finding themselves once again in the casino or a smoker mindlessly lighting up, or someone spending an evening in front of the TV and not remembering any of it. It is enough that you get a sense of comfort and satisfaction from doing what you are used to doing.

However, no matter how much humans try, it’s hard to hide that a cow pie is, in fact, a cow pie. People do all sorts of creative things with their cow pies to transform them and make them more palatable.

Perhaps pepperonis and organic feta toppings will make the difference.

If we are fortunate enough to live long enough, we end up looking and smelling like shit.

Are there really options to collecting cow pies? It’s difficult to say, but a good place to start is by asking, “Is this a cow pie or not?” “Do I need to pick it up or not?” “Do I need to carry it with me in my life or not?”

Many of the problems we have today is because we won’t stop picking up cow pies. Corporate global warming deniers like the Koch brothers just keep on picking up the cow pies they have always picked up. Entrenched interests, like lobbyists, dictators, defense contractors, bankers, and brokers just keep on picking up the cow pies they have always picked up. Politicians get re-elected by selling us cow-pies. Fortunately, we possess the objectivity to look, wonder, and laugh when we aren’t furious. We look around us at the cow-pie gathering behavior of others and think, “What a waste of talent, money, and time!” Do we have the objectivity to see how ridiculous our own cow pie collection is? Can we stop?

You have to decide what is and what is not a cow pie. Begin with the default position that everything is a cow pie in disguise, until proven otherwise. While this may sound cynical or pessimistic, it is not. It encourages you to question your assumptions about what is real, good, important, and necessary in your life. Most things that you think you can’t live without, you probably can. Simplifying creates not only space to appreciate life, but for emerging potentials to sprout from deep within you. Integral Deep Listening proposes that there are many potentials wanting to emerge within you that aren’t addicted to picking up cow pies. If you listen to them and their recommendations, you can learn how to stop.

We cannot not fly in our lives until we deal with the tethers of trying to please others. You may one day find yourself in the sixth decade of your life and still be grounded – until you do. What to do? All of us have these bonds from our childhood years when we could not feel good about ourselves unless we pleased our parents, caretakers, and teachers. As we grew older, this need transferred to our peers, our bosses, our co-workers, our government, our spouses, and even our children. As a result, instead of listening to ourselves and pleasing ourselves, we easily find that we spend our lives torn between pleasing first this person, and then another who holds quite different expectations for us than did the first or that we have for ourselves. The result is that we please no one, particularly ourselves. Your mother and father are still alive, living rent-free inside your head. So are those bullies that teased you when you were six. Which inner voices do we listen to, and when? Which voices is it time to evict?

Your inner compass shows up in both your dreams and the challenges daily life brings to you. It is always trying to wake you up to the craziness of trying to please others. Your inner compass is constantly trying to help you see how you keep yourself trapped and show you the way out. Are you listening?

In the following dream and interview, Beautiful Dreamer demonstrates how you can use IDL to better understand this predicament and grow into a life that feels free and authentic for you.

Tell me your dream:

Associations: 

I have no idea why I had this dream. I will end up interviewing two characters so I will change the color of their answers to make this easier to read. 

Owl, how would you score yourself from 0-10 in;

Acceptance 10 , wisdom 10 , compassion 10 , peace of mind 10 , confidence 10 and witness 10 .

One young lady had a nightmare of orcs, like those in Lord of the Rings. They  came up an elevator and were coming into her bedroom! Very scary! In fact, even after she was awake and knew they were “just dream orcs,” they were still too scary to interview.

When she did the orcs said that they had come to visit and have a cup of tea with her. They didn’t want to harm her. She woke up before they could let her know her intentions.

Why did they have to be so frightening? The interviewed orcs said, “Well, you wouldn’t have remembered the dream if you hadn’t gotten so scared that it woke you up!”

The orcs said that they represented parts of herself that she was afraid to listen to, that she was shutting out. By interviewing the orcs she integrated them into herself. She realized that she had been scaring herself!

This led to a conversation about how, by avoiding looking at and listening to the parts of ourselves that either scare us or that we are ashamed of, or that we dismiss as stupid or unimportant, we deprive ourselves of the opportunity to learn from exactly those emerging potentials that have the most to teach us.

IDL interviewing speeds up your growth process by identifying and neutralizing your resistances, whatever they are.

Moral: When a monster shows up in your dream, why not invite it in for a spot of tea?

Have you ever seen lovers as rescuers? Have you ever had trouble getting out of the Drama Triangle with lovers? This lady did!  She had a dream about a toilet!  When she wanted to sit on the toilet it sprouted legs and moved wherever it wanted! When she became the toilet in her IDL interview it sprouted wings and could fly wherever it wanted!    The toilet told her that she didn’t have to spend her life being “dumped on” by other people, especially lovers!

This amusing and graphic example provided an excellent example of cosmic humor, the ability to witness events from one or more non-invested perspectves that can see the drama of life as ironic, over-personalized, over-invested addiction to unnecessary suffering.  Such experiences help us to cultivate an attitude of cosmic humor toward ourselves and toward our lives. Images like flying toilets can help us not to take ourselves soooo seriously! Cosmic humor does not mean that you are flippant, dismissive of life or simply seeing life as an illusory, delusional dream to avoid. The exact opposite becomes more likely: as a result you are better able to invest yourself in your life because you are less defensive, scared, or attached to outcomes.

One participant in an IDL training module in November reported a dream in which she was sitting on the sand at a beautiful beach, enjoying herself. She looked down and worms were coming up out of the sand around her. Then she realized that the ground was hollow beneath her and that she was about to fall into a hole! That scared her awake.

Because we were teaching how to create Dream Sociomatrices she interviewed not only Dream Self, herself in the dream, but also the ocean, the beach, and the worms. She omitted the hole because it was “nothing” and scary.  Of course, what she was doing was avoiding listening to the “loudest” voice in her dream! So we had her go back and interview it as well. The hole said that it contained a “paradise.” If she would allow herself to fall in, she would find herself in a paradise!

What this lady took away from this interview was that she spends her time seeking to find comfort, recreation, and relaxation (being on the beach) in the context of her daily life. There is no problem with this except that it thereby avoids a “fall” into a state of being that will bring her happiness beyond her wildest dreams. This “space” exists close at hand, so close that she does not recognize it, but only “negative” indicators of something being “wrong.” But those are  misinterpretations. There is nothing negative about the “worms” in her life or “wrong” about either the hole or falling into it. But because she misinterprets this shift as a threat, she does everything she can to avoid it. She does not realize that moving toward what she fears is exactly what she needs to do in order to move into a transformational way of being.

Now, in the abstract we can all grasp this concept. But it is entirely another for us to personally experience the reality of that message ourselves. Are you willing to let go and fall into the abyss? Are you willing to “die” to be reborn? Few are. This is essentially the function of meditation: to practice dying so that you can be reborn.

For the new year, why not resolve to move toward whatever you fear?

How do we grow our sense of self? In some ways this is the same problem we experience with learning to be assertive: because we aren’t, assertiveness feels like aggressiveness. Similarly, when we lack a broader sense of who we are, any expansion is easy to experience as grandiose,  narcissistic, and selfish. Is it? How do we know? We can’t rely on most others – some will say we are fine the way we are; others will think we need to grow more. Others will warn us that we’ll get “too big for our britches.” The solution IDL offers is to “try on” the expanded world views of emerging potentials that supply us with authentic, yet expanded experiences of who we are.

In this instance, the Eiffel Tower would seem to be a frighteningly grandiose way of experiencing the world: it is a mecca for the masses, a monument to triumphalism and to technological prowess. It is also a shrine to French culture, which many people see as proud, distant, and arrogant. No one wants to be viewed in such a way.

Yet, what we discover in the interview is that there is a broad difference between how humans may tend to view the Eiffel Tower and how it views itself. The implication is that we are misjudging ourselves and our potentials and thereby limiting our ability to grow into an expanded sense  of self. That is why it is so important to “try on” various alternative self-definitions provided in your IDL interviews. Keep what fits; discard what does not. Follow the recommendations that are useful; ignore those that either are not or are a bridge too far.

This was a helpful interview in several unexpected ways. I was leading a group through interviews around the issue of guilt and, as I often do, I did an interview on myself at the same time. The image that came up, the Eiffel Tower, was so incongruous and unexpected that I had no inclination to interview it and no expectation that it would have any relevance whatsoever, despite years of being consistently being proven wrong on that score. However, I put my disbelief aside and stuck with the image in the interview.

The result was a way of looking at myself that is very different than how I have seen myself in the past or tend to see myself. The combination of rigidity and structure, on the one hand, and transparency and airiness is very intriguing, as are the contrasts of rootedness in the earth and elevation into sky. There is also a sense of technological remoteness that contrasts with the Eiffel Tower crawling with people and with life.  All of these contrasts were new ways of thinking about myself, and once again my best teachers turn out to be my own emerging potentials, which know me better than I know myself and better than anyone else ever can.

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

1 deeper meditation

2 more focus on editing

3 eating better; eating healthier

When you persecute yourself with guilt, what feelings come up for you?

Fear

If those feelings had a color (or colors), what would it be?

Baby shit brown

Imagine that color filling the space in front of you so that it has depth, height, width, and aliveness.

Now watch that color swirl, congeal, and condense into a shape. Don’t make it take a shape, just watch it and say the first thing that you see or that comes to your mind: An animal? Object? Plant? What?

The Eiffel Tower!

Now remember how as a child you liked to pretend you were a teacher or a doctor?  It’s easy and fun for you to imagine that you are the shape that took form from your color and answer some questions I ask, saying the first thing that comes to your mind.  If you wait too long to answer, that’s not the character answering – that’s YOU trying to figure out the right thing to say!

Eiffel Tower, look out at the world from your perspective and tell us what you see…

I am very stable. I am very tall. I am very stately. People are proud of me and I am proud of myself. I am a technological marvel that has stood the test of time.  I don’t have eyes, but I experience the world as metal and space in a lattice dance of space and form.

What do you like most about yourself? What are your strengths?

I like that I am an object that evokes aspiration and inspiration in humans.

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses?  What are they?

There’s nothing I dislike about myself. I am maintained very well, so I don’t have any weaknesses. I’m not afraid of anything.

Eiffel Tower, you are in Joseph’s life experience, correct?  He created you, right? What aspect of Joseph do you represent or most closely personify?

The power of his mind to inspire and evoke greatness.

Eiffel Tower, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change?  If so, how?

I like being who and what I am!

(Continue, answering as the transformed object, if it chose to change.)

Eiffel Tower, how would you score yourself 0-10, in each of the following six qualities: confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, inner peace, and witnessing?  Why?

Confidence: 10 Nothing can hurt me!

Compassion:   0 I am a structure; I don’t have a sense of self or selflessness.

Wisdom:   ? I don’t know. I don’t need to be wise. My job is to be stable and beautiful. That’s enough. I don’t need wisdom.

Acceptance: 10 What’s there not to accept? I have people climbing all over me; there’s rain, sunshine, ice, snow…so what??

Inner Peace: 10 Nothing disturbs my equanimity!

Witnessing: 10

Eiffel Tower, if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different?  If so, how?

I would be alive! I think I would be a human!

How would Joseph’s life be different if he naturally scored like you do in all six of these qualities all the time?

He would feel like me! Quite stately, elegant, proud, unfazed, powerful, anchored, important, aware, aesthetic, timeless!

If you could live Joseph’s life for him, how would you live it differently?

I would not take anything personally; I wouldn’t feel that anything was about me. I would feel powerful in my presence.

If you could live Joseph’s waking life for him/her today, would you handle Joseph’s three life issues differently?  If so, how?

1 Deeper meditation: I am in a meditative state. Become me; feel my spaciousness. Feel me reaching up into heaven and strongly anchored into the Earth!

2 More focus on editing: I am anchored in my purpose, in my role. I am expression of that. The more that you anchor yourself in your purpose and your role the more your writing will become your priority.

3 Eating better; eating healthier: Well, I don’t eat. But I am an interplay of air and the elements. I let things freely come and go. I am very heavy, but there is a great lightness about all of that.

What three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of Joseph’s life?

1. A sense of the eternal now.

2. A sense of great presence.

3. A sense of innate importance and worth.

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for Joseph to imagine that he is you and act as you would?

Whenever he wants to feel powerful and portray power and presence in the world.

Eiffel Tower, do you feel guilt?  If not, why not?

Nope! That’s ridiculous! It’s not part of my nature!

What do you recommend your human do to stay out of guilt?

Become me!

Eiffel Tower, you are imaginary. Why should your human pay attention to anything you say?

I score higher than you. That’s why.

Why do you think that you are in Joseph’s life?

I don’t do guilt, do I? My nature is a natural preventative!

If this experience were a wake-up call from your inner compass, what do you think it would be saying to you?

I could do worse than assume the characteristics of the Eiffel Tower. It will keep me out of guilt and take my confidence and sense of self to a higher level of presence and power.

Is there anything you want to take away from this interview to apply in your everyday life?

Become the Eiffel Tower when I meditate and whenever I want to feel powerful, present, and focused.

This is an excellent example of how IDL can throw relevant, significant light on dreams from many years before. In this case, it explains the how and why of a dream that repeated many times over many years.

Coincidentally, it is another interview that throws light on water as an often misperceived and misunderstood emerging potential that everyone can benefit from appreciating, becoming, and using to make their everyday life better.

Here is a reframing of what Moonlight told herself. It is different from what your own interview will reveal, but this one gives interesting insights into how passivity can block our development for years and yet can be quickly outgrown when we access emerging potentials that are confident and assertive.

There is a part of you that is passive and feels walked on, like it’s discarded rubbish. You are bored of being the receptacle for other people’s life garbage.

There is a way you can get out of that. You need to go through a process of purification, similar to a waste water purification plant. To the extent that you do that you will find yourself free, able to breathe, confident, alive, energetic, light and full of abundance. You will become confident because you will become the essence of life. What you have called compassion will become less important; a different type of compassion will emerge. You will feel like everything in your life is in its right place. You will no longer be ruled by your likes or dislikes. You will have inner peace because you will be in touch with who you most centrally are. Pollution will still exist, and be an issue, but not nearly as much as it was before. There will be an acceptance of it and a knowledge that it doesn’t really affect what you are.

You will take the far view. Because you are in touch with a part of yourself that does not die, you will not be concerned about things that trouble others. It is OK to not be worried about your future; Ocean Water doesn’t worry about its future either! It’s OK to be fearless and confident that things will work out, but you need to develop a plan about how you will change your financial circumstances.

Because you are no longer to be a passive dumping ground for others you can shape your life and allow others to have their lives shaped by your decisions. You have plans for your future financial security that you need to act on, instead of using your mother’s health, the divorce and its effect on your children, and the present financial security as reasons not to take action.  Begin moving toward renting out your mother’s two apartments by consulting with a friend that is in that business and talk to her mother about those apartments.

Continue to give your children consequences. Continue to say respectful goodbyes to your mother. Stay on your present course regarding the divorce; don’t allow yourself to be distracted by his aggression.

Here is Moonlight’s interview:

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

Finances

Emotionally

Career

Tell me a dream you remember. It can be an old one, a repetitive dream, a nightmare, or one that you’re sure you understand.

I am going to be taking exams for high school or college. I know I am going to have them in two weeks and I haven’t studied! There is a voice behind me saying, “What are you doing? You are having your exams in two weeks and you don’t know a thing! Why don’t you sit down and put your head in the books?”  Then I am so flabbergasted! I am really scared, but at the same time, daring to ignore danger. It’s like walking into a volcano, looking down, thinking, “It’s really hot!” And still jumping down. Thinking maybe, “Let’s see what the magma feels like.”

Then I am in between the written and the oral part of my exams. I think, “I don’t care that I don’t have both exams and don’t have full certification.”

Why do you think that you had this dream?

I haven’t had this dream any in the last year. Before that I sometimes had it every second night. I have had that dream for some twenty years, maybe 129 times!

I am presently sitting in my life like I am in the dream – doing nothing – not knowing where I will be financially in five years, and I don’t really care. Society tells us that we need to plan for the future. Another part of me says, “I do’t care a damn. It will work out.” But it’s scary. If you don’t do anything then it won’t work out in five years that everything will be OK.

What feelings does this issue bring up for you?

Flabbergasted!

If those feelings had a color (or colors), what would it be?

Green, brown, dirty!

If one character had something especially important to tell you, what would it be?

Soupy, dirty water in a street gutter!

Now remember how as a child you liked to pretend you were a teacher or a doctor?  It’s easy and fun for you to imagine that you are this or that character in your dream and answer some questions I ask, saying the first thing that comes to your mind.  If you wait too long to answer, that’s not the character answering – that’s YOU trying to figure out the right thing to say!

Soupy stuff, are you a representation of a feeling in Moonlight’s dream?

Yes.

Soup, would you please tell me about yourself and what you are doing?

There are dirt and leaves. I am a cold, dirty soup.

What do you like most about yourself? What are your strengths?

I don’t like anything about myself. I don’t want to be soup. I’m cold, dirty, the rubbish of the street, people walk on me. I am bored of being the end of civilization!

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses?  What are they?

The passiveness. I am being created by dust that flies by, flooding rain water, leaves that come down whenever they want. That’s boring!

Soupy stuff, what aspect of  Moonlight do you represent or most closely personify?

Being the soup pot for others to put their dirt in!

Soup, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change?  If so, how?

I would like to swim through the gutter and be processed into good drinking water and then flood into the ocean!

Imagine you have done that, Soup. What is that like now for you?

It is like going into a washing machine – going in dirty and coming out washed! I can breathe! I am free! I can flood! I am not ashamed of my looks! I am with others. There are fish and corals – nice surroundings! Not dark any more! The light is coming through. I’m blue! It’s nice!

(Continue, answering as the transformed object, if it chose to change.)

Ocean Water, how would you score yourself 0-10, in confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, peace of mind, and witnessing?  Why?

Confidence:        10 83% of the world is made out of me!  Because I am the essense of life!

Compassion:      8 I don’t care about those things anymore. Compassion is wonderful, but only humankind needs that! I like to be the habitat for fishes and corals, so there is compassion. I don’t even care when dirty ships drive through me.  Compassion is not an issue for me….

Wisdom:             10 Everything feels like it is its right place.

Acceptance:          9 It’s not a question anymore whether I like or dislike things; I am essential, so I can accept what comes!

Inner Peace:        9 I am essential; because I am essential I have deep peace.

Witnessing:        8 Sometimes I am a bit annoyed by polluting boats or sharks eating people. But it’s the circle of life. The pollution is annoying…But I can’t change it and I am so powerful!

Ocean Water, if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different?  If so, how?

It wouldn’t be much different. Even more accepting of what happens. Mankind, which invented polluting boats, will be gone in 30,000 years, but I will stay.

How would Moonlight’s life be different if she naturally scored like you do in all six of these qualities all the time?

I am a bit astonished that Moonlight is still relaxed concerning her situation. That comes from her Virgo and Saggitarius – the realistic planning…She would be even more relaxed and smooth. But she still is!  It’s the same feeling as in the dream – astonished worried!

And why are you worried about her, Ocean Water?

There is not really a plan about how she will change her circumstances regarding her job.

If you could live Moonlight’s life for her, what sort of a plan regarding a job would you create?

What’s most important to me is that Moonlight is no longer willing to be the soup bowl of the actions of others. If she goes into action, others will have to cope with her life choices, and not so much vice versa, as it has been.  Moonlight has ideas for her future financial security. She should just do it!

What keeps her from just doing it, Ocean Water?

The situation of her mother, which is getting worse and worse. Her children, who are not used to the divorce. They still have their flashbacks and are sad. Not presently having the financial needs due to savings she can live from. Moonlight’s idea is to rent out apartments that are furnished, starting with the one that her mother has, but she doesn’t want to kick her mother out of the apartment. In three to four months she will so be in her dementia it won’t matter. Moonlight wants to be respectful. Her mother is now living in a home for people with dementia. She’s not living in that apartment. There are two that are still the way her mother left them that Moonlight could begin moving toward renting out.

What do you think about that idea, Ocean Water?

There are many advantages. Why not? The apartments and furniture are there.

Ocean Water, how would you live Moonlight’s life differently?

Get out of the gully situation! Have the experience of the washing machine! Start letting her life flow!

If you could live Moonlight’s waking life for her/him today, would you handle her/his three life issues differently?  If so, how?

Finances

Get Started! The first step is to talk to her mother about her apartment. Talk to another lady who is doing the same.

Emotionally

I think she’s on a good way. Just keep it up! Giving her children consequences. Say respectful goodbyes to her mother, who is fading away. Regarding her X, stay on her current path for the divorce. Do not get distracted by his aggression.

Career

The apartment idea will take time, but that’s OK.

What three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of her life?

The same ones.

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for to imagine that she is you and act as you would?

Regularly for the next two months!

Why do you think that you are in Moonlight’s life?

Moonlight loves water

I think Moonlight had this dream because

there was this fear she couldn’t cope with society’s standards regarding her education. Once in a while she feels she wants to push the limits. It’s testing out. Why not check it out?? It’s different than her usual planning, rational personality! She went down a dark street when she was five to a traffic light and felt very brave. Then she went to the next traffic light, much farther away when she was a year older. She was crying all the way but she did it!  Her mother had confidence in her that she could handle things. And so she has confidence in herself!

I think this dream event happened or (some character) was in the dream because…

She was on this way to have her exam and all of a sudden it changes – the way her life was disrupted by her divorce. On the one hand she is astonished – “That isn’t my life plan!” On the other hand is the attractiveness – “Let’s see what is going to happen!” Then there is the worry that without training and a good family she won’t have a happy life. But I am here to let her know that she doesn’t need to think that way.

What have you heard yourself say?

I don’t want to be the soup pot for the dirt of others any more. The confidence to go through this sewage treatment plant and then being the ocean water – what a nice feeling! I can use this while meditating and coping with situations in everyday life.

If this experience were a wake-up call from your inner compass, what do you think it would be saying to you?

Don’t be shy about going through the cleansing process! You’ll end up knowing you are like ocean water!

As it turns out in the following interview, both nothing and everything.

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

1 Getting my books edited and published.

2 Strengthening the antidotes to drama: luminosity, cosmic humor, and abundance.

3 Deepening my meditation practice

Which issue brings up the strongest feelings for you?

A friend, Eugene Kovalenko, sent me two dreams he has had about Barak Obama. This was in response to a tirade of discouraged angst from me on how let down and disappointed I am in Obama as US President. He was prompted to interview his dream Obama, so, in the understanding that I am shadow boxing with an aspect of myself that I feel discouraged and disappointed in, I told him I would do the same.

So the feeling is disappointment

If those feelings had a color (or colors), what would it be?

Olive green.

Imagine that color filling the space in front of you so that it has depth, height, width, and aliveness.

Now watch that color swirl, congeal, and condense into a shape. Don’t make it take a shape, just watch it and say the first thing that you see or that comes to your mind: An animal? Object? Plant? What?

A green olive with a red pimento in it!

Now remember how as a child you liked to pretend you were a teacher or a doctor?  It’s easy and fun for you to imagine that you are the shape that took form from your color and answer some questions I ask, saying the first thing that comes to your mind.  If you wait too long to answer, that’s not the character answering – that’s YOU trying to figure out the right thing to say!

Green Olive, would you please tell me about yourself and what you are doing?

I am just hovering in Joseph’s mind’s eye. I’m a good looking olive, with an oil sheen. I will taste good, too.

What do you like most about yourself? What are your strengths?

I am perfectly myself.

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses?  What are they?

Nothing to dislike. No weaknesses.

What aspect of Joseph do you represent or most closely personify?

I have that same color, olive green, of his disappointment, but there’s nothing disappointing about me. You get what you expect when you bite into me, although I admit I am an acquired taste. Joseph didn’t like me when he was young and a lot of adults don’t. But of course I couldn’t care less.

Green Olive, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change?  If so, how?

I think I would be a jar of olives so that I would still be around when any individual “me” was eaten. Or maybe all olive trees so that I would really always be around. Yeah. I like that idea. All olive trees! With their olives!

(Continue, answering as the transformed object, if it chose to change.)

Olive trees, what the hell do you have to do with Barak Obama and Joseph’s disappointment in him?

How should I know? I didn’t create me!

Olive Trees, how would you score yourself 0-10, in each of the following six qualities: confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, inner peace, and witnessing?  Why?

Confidence: 10 Individual examples of us die but we as a species live on.

Compassion: 10 When compassion means “selflessness.”

Wisdom:   ? We are excellent at being olive trees.

Acceptance: 10

Inner Peace: 10

Witnessing: 10

Olive Tree, if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different?  If so, how?

I don’t think so.

How would Joseph’s life be different if he naturally scored like you do in all six of these qualities all the time?

Well, he certainly wouldn’t think about Barak Obama. He thinks he needs to stay knowledgeable about current events, but it’s all drama. It’s all the Drama Triangle. How does staying knowledgeable about any of that build his presence with the six core qualities? Hmmmm???

If you could live Joseph’s life for him, how would you live it differently?

I would live it like me. One with nature, one with his nature. I would let go of all that external drama that he has no control over anyway.

If you could live Joseph’s waking life for him today, would you handle Joseph’s three life issues differently?  If so, how?

1 Getting my books edited and published.

If he gave up his addiction to the news he might be surprised at how much more he found he could get accomplished.

2 Strengthening the antidotes to drama: luminosity, cosmic humor, and abundance.

Very good. Same response as above.

3 Deepening my meditation practice

Another good goal. Also same response as above.

What three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of Joseph’s life?

1. Letting go of drama.

2. Embracing the moment.

3. Living.

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for Joseph to imagine that he is you and act as you would?

When he catches himself in drama, out of the moment, or afraid of death.

Olive Trees, do you do drama?  If not, why not?

I am cycles of existence that transcend and include drama.

Why do you think that you are in Joseph’s life?

To help him get out of drama and live more fully.

How is Joseph most likely to ignore what you are saying to him?

Keep checking the news.

What would you recommend that he do about that?

I would cold turkey stop for a week, then re-evaluate.

Joseph, what have you heard yourself say?

I couldn’t see how an olive and then olive trees had anything to do with Barak Obama. The connection is clear to me now. My disappointment is a reaction within the Drama Triangle that wouldn’t happen if I wouldn’t go there. The Olive and the Olive Tree don’t go there. They don’t relate.

If this experience were a wake-up call from your inner compass, what do you think it would be saying to you?

Trust yourself. Let go of the drama of current events and see what happens to your goals for your life issues.

Is there anything you want to take away from this interview to apply in your everyday life?

Yeah. Stop reading the news on the internet.

This interview was a real surprise, although I long ago learned to suspend my assumptions about what is going to come up in one. I approached it with an interest in finding out how I react to a part of myself (Obama) and misjudge it, then project that out onto the real Obama, who I don’t respect at this point.  That is not what came up in this interview at all. When the olive green color of disappointment became an olive green, green olive I thought, “You’ve gotta be kidding. An image that is a concrete depiction of the color! How uncreative!” I was prepared for the interview to go nowhere. Then, when the olive said it had no clue what it had to do with Obama, I was sure the interview was going nowhere – a rarity in my experience.

It wasn’t until after the scoring that the message came through, but when it did,it was crystal clear:

How would Joseph’s life be different if he naturally scored like you do in all six of these qualities all the time?

Well, he certainly wouldn’t think about Barak Obama. He thinks he needs to stay knowledgeable about current events, but it’s all drama. It’s all the Drama Triangle. How does staying knowledgeable about any of that build his presence with the six core qualities? Hmmmm???

We all want to grow. We want to change. We want to become “enlightened,” whatever that is. But do we want to pay the price of growth? Are we really willing to change? Do we want to become enlightened – as long as it’s in our way and on our terms?

Following the thinking and the recommendation of Olive Trees – not to stay knowledgeable about current events – would mean a huge change in priorities for me. I spend a lot of time every day surfing the internet staying informed on topics of concern to me. These Olive Trees are not interested in Barak Obama per se, but with that entire perspective that makes Barak Obama a concern at all for me. I hadn’t expected that at all. This is a good example of what happens when you practice Integral Deep Listening: you may get more than you bargained for.

When you do get more than what you bargained for, what do you do?

I decided that while what Olive Tree said is probably true, that I am addicted to the drama of news, that its advice is extreme. Therefore, I decided to trust it and stop looking at the news for a week and to see what happens with my productivity during that week. Then I will re-evaluate and maybe find some modified position that is not so extreme. I’m pretty sure the Olive Tree will continue to voice its current extreme position, but it is only one of many of my emerging potentials. I can consult other high-scoring ones and see if they agree with Olive Tree or whether there is some way I can stay in touch without being addicted or affecting my productivity.  But so far, I’m surprised that I haven’t missed the news or the internet surfing. My theory is that because the change is supported from parts of myself that are more awake than I am, that it’s a natural vector for growth, meaning that I am encountering less resistance than I thought I would. If that is the case, the implications are similar for you: there are changes you can make in your life that you either have not considered or have dismissed as unrealistic or too difficult that you will find much easier than you expect – once you feel that support from parts of yourself that know you and love you more than you know and love yourself.

Thoughts or comments? Post them here!

Ever wish you could find a peaceful place within yourself to take refuge, something like a secret garden?

It’s funny how such a refuge can show up in our lives, but we are too busy, stressed, or preoccupied to notice or take advantage of it. Such is the case with Sunshine. Her garden showed up in a repetitive nightmare! While she takes refuge in it in her nightmare, she never learned to listen to it and so never recognized what a resource it could become for her in her daily life.

With this IDL interview, Sunshine’s first, she took the time to listen to and experience what it means for her life to actually experience living her life as that special garden. Hopefully, her interview will inspire you to find your own center and inner compass, so that you will always have a refuge from the storms of life whirling around you.

What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?

Partnership

To be in balance with myself – find inner peace

The relationship with my family

Tell me a dream you remember.  It can be an old one, a repetitive dream, a nightmare, or one that you’re sure you understand.

When I was about twelve I had a nightmare that I was running down the street with my smallest brother and my sister. Behind us were persecutors. We couldn’t escape; suddenly we became smaller and we could hide in a little garden.

Why do you think that you had this dream?

I had many dreams where I wanted to run away but I couldn’t but I don’t know why.

If one character had something especially important to tell you, what would it be?

Garden

Now remember how as a child you liked to pretend you were a teacher or a doctor?  It’s easy and fun for you to imagine that you are this or that character in your dream and answer some questions I ask, saying the first thing that comes to your mind.  If you wait too long to answer, that’s not the character answering – that’s YOU trying to figure out the right thing to say!

Garden, are you a character in Sunshine’s dream, yes?

Yes.

Garden, would you please tell me about yourself and what you are doing?

I am small and green but I have many plants and flowers in me.  There are trees. If you are in me you can’t see the sky because of the trees. There are also birds.

What do you like most about yourself? What are your strengths?

I like most that people can come into me and calm down and escape from what is outside of me.  I am a very relaxing place.

What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses?  What are they?

Actually, not. I am happy as I am.

Garden, what aspect of Sunshine do you represent or most closely personify?

A place inside her where she can relax and be calm.  It’s not so big in her but it’s there.

Garden, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change?  If so, how?

I would grow and become much bigger. I have a little lake in me now. The trees are much bigger but you can see the sky now in places. There is much more space. It’s not so crowded.

(Continue, answering as the transformed object, if it chose to change.)

Garden, how would you score yourself 0-10, in confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, peace of mind, and witnessing?  Why?

Confidence: 8 I am scared that someone could set me on fire and then I wouldn’t exist any more. But eight is a high score. I  basically have a pretty confident score.

Compassion: 5 Everyone can come into me, regardless.

Wisdom: 7

Acceptance: 10 I accept myself as I am so I do so with others. I don’t judge.

Inner Peace: 10 I am the inner peace! To see me you can’t think of anything else but to be at peace!

Witnessing: 10 Because I’m so big I can see almost everything…If someone wants to go inside me he can; if not he doesn’t have to.

Garden, if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different?  If so, how?

Then I don’t have any fear that I could be harmed. I have that much more inner peace!

How would Sunshine’s life be different if she naturally scored like you do in all six of these qualities all the time?

She would not have so many worries and thoughts. She would calm down and see the beauty, just to be aware that she is there and doesn’t need to change.

If you could live Sunshine’s life for her, how would you live it differently?

She would go inside herself more and not be influenced so much by things outside of herself.  She would focus on finding her own inner peace.

If you could live Sunshine’s waking life for her today, would you handle her three life issues differently?  If so, how?

Partnership – I would be a lot more relaxed, not worry about it. Let it happen, not worry about it so much. She’s always thinking about stuff that is not really important.

To be in balance with myself – find inner peace

If she were to imagine that she is me then she would have the balance and inner peace that she seeks.

The relationship with my family

She often wants to change her family members, so if she became me there wouldn’t be so much fighting and struggle. If she were me she would just let it happen and see that she can’t change her family members.

What three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of her life?

The same

In what life situations would it be most beneficial for Sunshine to imagine that she is you and act as you would?

When she is worrying! It doesn’t matter if it’s about the future, her family, her partnership.

Would creating a little garden help her, garden?

A small plant or so; also to be in gardens or parks.

How is Sunshine most likely to ignore what you are saying to her?

She won’t forget about me!

I think this dream event happened or (some character) was in the dream because…

She wants to find this balance in her life. The fact that she created me shows that there is a bit of me in her already. She wants to have more of that balance. She wants to have me to get away from feelings of persecution.

What have you heard yourself say?

It is good to have an inner balance, an interior place to calm down.  To have this garden to be when I get worried or get anxious. To go inside of me and see that there is a calm point and to see her circumstances from my point of view so that she will react differently. Also, to be in nature because that also brings her balance.

If this experience were a wake-up call from your inner compass, what do you think it would be saying to you?

Search for you inner peace!

Notice that Sunshine has given herself a beautiful centering tool, not only for stressful waking situations, such as family arguments or concerns about partnerships, but also for meditation! When she becomes her garden she becomes an experience, an energy, a perspective that is already authentically and organically who she is. It speaks to her. It is something that she can trust as an expression of her own inner compass. While centering tools offered by others can be helpful and can also be used, having one’s own authentic and ever present inner sanctuary is a port in the storm of life.

Sunshine is young and just starting out her adult life.  How would our lives have been different if we had found our inner compass and followed it earlier in our lives? This is why we need to do interviews with the young people in our lives – to ground them in their own truth and inner beauty so that they will never feel lost, alone, or powerless for long.