The idea of the “void” is so beyond comprehension as to be either meaningless or frightening to many. Others dismiss it as a pessimistic concept that negates beingness and reality. Beverly’s interview not only helps us to understand the concept of the Void but illustrates how it can be integrated in a constructive, practical way into our ongoing lives. In the process, Beverly receives concrete assistance with key issues in her life today.
What are three fundamental life issues that you are dealing with now in your life?
My health Fibromyalgia. A stroke last year. I had a bad fall that messed up my hand. I have a lot of pain. I’m very limited in what I can do.
Wanting to write a book but having all these excuses why I can’t.
Making some more money; starting a business and being successful at it.
Tell me about your near death experience…
Somehow an unexpected peace descended upon me. I found myself floating on the ceiling over the bed looking down at my unconscious body. I barely had time to realize the glorious strangeness of the situation – that I was me but not in my body – when I was joined by a radiant being bathed in a shimmering white glow. Like myself, this being flew but had no wings. I felt a reverent awe when I turned to him; this was no ordinary angel or spirit, but he had been sent to deliver me. Such love and gentleness emanated from his being that I felt that I was in the presence of the Messiah.
Whoever he was, his presence deepened my serenity and awakened a feeling of joy as I recognized my companion. Gently he took my hand and we flew right through the window. I felt no surprise at my ability to do this. In this wondrous presence, everything was as it should be.
Beneath us lay the beautiful Pacific Ocean … But my attention was now directed upward, where there was a large opening leading to a circular path. Although it seemed to be deep and far to the end, a white light shone through and poured out into the gloom to the other side where the opening beckoned. It was the most brilliant light I had ever seen, although I didn’t realize how much of its glory was veiled from the outside. The path was angled upward, obliquely, to the right. Now still hand in hand with the angel, I was led into the opening of the small, dark passageway.
I then remember traveling a long distance upward toward the light. I believe that I was moving very fast, but this entire realm seemed to be outside of time. Finally, I reached my destination. It was only when I emerged from the other end that I realized that I was no longer accompanied by the being who had brought me there. But I wasn’t alone. There, before me, was the living presence of the light. Within it I sensed an all-pervading intelligence, wisdom, compassion, love, and truth. There was neither form nor sex to this perfect being. It, which I shall in the future call he, in keeping without our commonly accepted syntax, contained everything, as white light contains all the colors of a rainbow when penetrating a prism. And deep within me came an instant and wondrous recognition: I, even I, was facing God.
I immediately lashed out at him with all the questions I had ever wondered about; all the injustices I had seen in the physical world. I don’t know if I did this deliberately, but I discovered that God knows all your thoughts immediately and responds telepathically. My mind was naked; in fact, I became pure mind. The ethereal body which I had traveled in through the tunnel seemed to be no more; it was just my personal intelligence confronting that Universal Mind, which clothed itself in a glorious, living light that was more felt that seen, since no eye could absorb its splendor.
I don’t recall the exact content of our discussion; in the process of return, the insights that came so clearly and fully in Heaven were not brought back with me to Earth. I’m sure that I asked the question that had been plaguing me since childhood about the sufferings of my people. I do remember this: There was a reason for everything that happened, no matter how awful it appeared in the physical realm. And within myself, as I was given the answer, my own awakening mind now responded in the same manner:
“Of course,” I would think, “I already know that. How could I ever have forgotten!”
Indeed, it appears that all that happens is for a purpose, and that purpose is already known to our eternal self.
In time the questions ceased, because I suddenly was filled with all the Being’s wisdom. I was given more than just the answers to my questions; all knowledge unfolded to me, like the instant blossoming of an infinite number of flowers all at once. I was filled with God’s knowledge, and in that precious aspect of his Beingness, I was one with him. But my journey of discovery was just beginning.
Now I was treated to an extraordinary voyage through the universe. Instantly we traveled to the center of stars being born, supernovas exploding, and many other glorious celestial events for which I have no name. The impression I have now of this trip is that it felt like the universe is all one grand object woven from the same fabric. Space and time are illusions that hold us to our physical realm; out there all is present simultaneously. I was a passenger on a divine spaceship in which the Creator showed me the fullness and beauty of all of his Creation.
The last thing that I saw before all external vision ended was a glorious fire – the core and center of a marvelous star. Perhaps this was a symbol for the blessing that was now to come to me. Everything faded except for a richly full void in which That and I encompassed All that is. Here, I experienced, in ineffable magnificence, communion with the light being. Now I was filled with not just all knowledge, but also with all love. It was as if the light were poured in and through me. I was God’s object of adoration; and from his/our love I drew life and joy beyond imagining. My being was transformed; my delusions, sins, and guilt were forgiven and purged without asking; and now I was love, primal being, and bliss. And, in some sense, I remain there, for Eternity. Such a union cannot be broken. It always was, is, and shall be.
Suddenly, not knowing how or why, I returned to my broken body. But miraculously, I brought back the love and the joy. I was filled with an ecstasy beyond my wildest dreams. Here, in my body, the pain had all been removed. I was still enthralled by a boundless delight. For the next two months, I remained in this state, oblivious to any pain.
I felt now as if I had been made anew. I saw wondrous meanings everywhere; everything was alive and full of energy and intelligence.
Although it’s been 40 years since my heavenly voyage, I have never forgotten it. Nor have I, in the face of ridicule and disbelief, ever doubted its reality. Nothing that intense and life-changing could possibly have been a dream or hallucination. To the contrary, I consider the rest of my life to be a passing fantasy, a brief dream, that will end when I again awaken in the permanent presence of that giver of life and bliss.
Beverly had another remarkable NDE experience as a child. You can find an account of it as well as the NDE above and helpful biographical information at
Why do you think that you had this NDE?
I don’t know, really….It was a blessing and a great gift. I think I’m supposed to do something more with it. I would like to bring its healing emotionally and spiritually into my life and the lives of other people.
These are the characters, forms, and objects in the NDE, beside yourself…
hospital, sister, tonsils, heavenly landscape, clouds, field, flowers, motorcycle, cold table or stretcher, radiant world, flowers, hills, Hall of Knowledge, ceiling, black wave, Earth, small white circle, like a bubble in the wave, sun, Light, curtain, string, radiant being, Pacific Ocean, large opening, circular path, God, universe, supernovas, glorious fire in a star, void
If one character had something especially important to tell you, what would it be?
Void and the Curtain
We will address Void first and perhaps Curtain as well if we have time.
Now remember how as a child you liked to pretend you were a teacher or a doctor? It’s easy and fun for you to imagine that you are this or that character in your NDE and answer some questions I ask, saying the first thing that comes to your mind. If you wait too long to answer, that’s not the character answering – that’s YOU trying to figure out the right thing to say!
Void, are you a character in Beverly’s NDE?
Yes, I am.
Void, would you please tell me about yourself and what you are doing?
I represent the infinite potentiality of all things and the unity of all things. I am the infinite point; I have no substance. I am the point from which creation occurs.
What do you like most about yourself? What are your strengths?
I cannot separate, I do not judge. I lovingly accept all beings. I have infinite strength because within me is God who creates all things.
What do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses? What are they?
I sometimes wish I could be creation and experience all the joy of beingness. My limitation is that I cannot know duality. I cannot know what it is like to be in the physical world and know life and death, dark and light, good and evil.
Void, what aspect of Beverly do you represent or most closely personify?
Her higher nature, her unconditional love, her beingness.
Void, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change? If so, how?
Yes, I sometimes imagine myself standing beside people while they live their lives, being an unseen presence observing without judgment the struggle of humans and other beings like them who have free will and have to make decisions. I can do that by shifting my attention to what I am not.
Try that now, Void and tell me what that’s like.
If I focus on Beverly I have compassion for her but I don’t understand why she finds her life so difficult. I don’t understand pain and the concept of having difficulty doing things like she does. She is not in touch with this part of herself that does all. It’s her ego, her mental chatter, negative influences from others, darkness in the earth plane.
If you were Beverly, what would you do about that, Void?
If I were her I would know I could overcome these things by connecting my consciousness, my inner being, my soul with this quality. I would look up at the stars every night and become the stars as she did in her experiences. I would take that into me and know that the stars are me. I would know that I could create works, like worlds, from my essence. She’s that powerful?
She doesn’t realize she’s that powerful. She doesn’t understand that infinite power she saw is who she is. She doesn’t use her power in her life.
Why not, Void?
It’s her social conditioning that is in denial that makes it hard for her to access it. Meditation time, connecting with the stars. That is where her strength lies. She knows she is love but she needs to feel this love.
I can’t actually participate in duality. I sometimes want to change but I can’t change because I am the greater plan. There has to be a resting place in oneness. I can imagine that I am both as Void but I cannot be both in actuality.
Void, I would like you to imagine that you are both now for a few minutes if that would be OK?
(Continue, answering as the transformed object, if it chose to change.)
Void, how would you score yourself 0-10, in confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, peace of mind, and witnessing? Why?
Confidence: 10 I see those around me are full of fear. I am absorbing the fear of others and my own level is dropping and becoming a nine.
Compassion: 10 I am infinite compassion. I identify with this duality; separation is not what I am.
Wisdom: 10 I understand how things work and how people are guided to make the choices that they do make. Acceptance: 10 Because I accept the choices people make. It’s part of their path.
Inner Peace: 9.5 to 10 The inner peace that I feel in my beingness from where I am. There is a lot of interference out here in creation that tells us that we are citizens of particular countries, gender, aging, which is not what we are -.
Witnessing: 10 That is what I am doing now. If I were Beverly it would be harder but it can be developed by her as a meditative skill.
How would Beverly’s life be different if she naturally scored like you do in all six of these qualities all the time?
She would be more her God self, her higher self. She would walk more confidently. She would know that she has the tools that she needs to do her work and heal her body.
If you could live Beverly’s life for her, how would you live it differently?
Much differently. I wouldn’t waste time on fear-based things. I would concentrate on the message I could give other people and the healing of her body. Others have been able to heal themselves through their higher connection.
If you could live Beverly’s waking life for her today, would you handle her three life issues differently? If so, how?
My health Fibromyalgia. A stroke three years ago. I had a bad fall last year that messed up both my wrists. I have a lot of pain. I’m very limited in what I can do.
She has been making progress getting off her medications but she could make more progress by doing more meditation, tai chi, and other processes. She would do that every day.
If she followed your advice, what difference would it make?
It would make a dramatic difference in her ability to move and to channel higher energies. She is absorbing lower energies instead. She would be able to have mastery of her body, which is very important for her to do at this time.
Wanting to write a book but having all these excuses why I can’t.
I would help her to see these excuses for what they are. Some are genuine. As she progresses in her well-being she needs to just get up and do without thinking and to limit her commitments so she can do it. I would start out with writing every day for an hour. She thinks too much about what she needs to do for the IANDS group. That is part of her higher calling but not to think and worry about it so much. Make it an item every month to find a speaker and get their information, get it out and run the meeting. It’s not that much work. Perhaps she would take the summer off and have no other commitments and focus on her writing . Let someone else do the meeting.
Making some more money; starting a business and being successful at it.
I would not feel guilty about making money because that is what is needed for her at this time in her life. As long as she starts at a low level and starts building it up there’s nothing wrong with making money. Money is like energy, a concrete exchange between people. It’s having a business, a non-profit side of her to balance with the God side of her.
What three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of her life?
1. Meditation and God connection for healing. The healing will come naturally as she connects more deeply with her God-self.
2. Service to humanity, whether writing, giving a talk, or doing internet radio like she was a few days ago.
3. Her vibration is important – to bring herself and others joy! Her core mission is to be happy!
In what life situations would it be most beneficial for Beverly to imagine that she is you and act as you would?
When she doubts herself and when she has pain. I am always there. She can always call on me. I will help to fill her up with confidence and knowingness. She just needs to still her outer mind and call on me. I can help her to see that pain cannot exist if we are all one. If she connects with this oneness within she will be relieved of her pain and instead be connected with her joy and her joy for her life (crying).
Void, tell me about Beverly’s tears…
She absorbs other people’s ideas and feelings very easily. Her fears are not her own. The body needs to take in some water! She has fears, mostly concerning her health. She is afraid that she can’t do things. If she will just focus on doing things instead of what might happen… The fear of doing things or getting sick stops her. Then she feels justified about living in fear. She’s been telling herself a story of “no” that is not true. I would like to see her stop herself when she is doing that. I would like her to remember that I am present with her and love her and that she doesn’t have to live like this.
Why do you think that you are in Beverly’s life?
You called on me, Joseph! I thank you for allowing me to express more of my beingness in her life. You have gone very deep into who she is and what stops her. And it’s all resolvable.
Do you think Beverly has been listening to what you have been saying to her?
I feel her surprise at my priorities for her life. In her healing work she is not trained to focus on her joy. She is called to really feel love and joy and get out of her fear and pain body. It’s more a fear state of mind than a pain state of mind. The fear is the cause; the pain is the result.
How is Beverly most likely to ignore what you are saying to her?
If she continues with her current path it will be difficult and painful and many things can stop her. It’s important that she climb a smooth path, not one full of boulders and things that can trip her up. The one I have for her she can run on or even fly, under my guidance. Whenever she is filled with fears of her body stopping her she is to call on me and the many beings that are watching over her. She can call on us any time for help. We are always there. We have infinite time and infinite patience. We do not judge her.
I think Beverly had these NDEs because…
There was much more that happened in her NDEs but it is difficult to explain in words. We teach her in her dreams; she should pay attention to them. Infinite knowledge wants her to succeed, to be happy, to not suffer. She’s a very special child of God and she should not put boulders in her path as she has been doing but sail smoothly toward her destination, which is enlightenment and helping many others.
What have you heard yourself say?
I have walked a stony path because I am so afraid of what I can’t do. I stop myself from progressing and doing what I can do. I can always turn to my higher self and get help at any time. Rather than focusing on my projects I should focus on feeling joy in my life. The projects will do themselves. I have to get my ego mind out of the way. When I hear that inner chatter I should go into the witnessing mode and tell myself, “I’m telling myself that again.” Take some breaths and settle into my God self. Let that feeling lift me out of that fearful place into love! That is my main problem – that I am living with all these fears of my body instead of using my body to do Tai Chi and other practices I’m trained in and allowing the God energy to fill me up.
Has this interview saved you any time in your life? If so, how much?
I don’t think I have as much time as I used to, having had a stroke and being in my sixties. I certainly hope that I do! The way I have been handling my life in the last 20 years with this fibromyalgia I have had to go somewhere and have someone else fix me. I couldn’t take the medications; the pain was getting worse and worse. I think it has really saved me, if I can look into this and save this, I can save myself a lot of time. I really thank you for this method of listening to myself.
If this experience were a wake-up call from the most central part of who you are, what do you think it would be saying to you?
Don’t take this world and your pain so literally and seriously because this is only a small part of who you are. Wake up! Wake up! Wake up!
Do you think your IDL interview helped you to “wake up” in some way to the usefulness or relevance of your NDE for you in your current life circumstances?
Yes, it helped me very much, giving me practical advice on dealing with my pain/disabilities as well as reprioritizing my life goals. It’s great to know that I’m supposed to have fun after two very challenging years. I’d forgotten how to let go.
Was becoming an aspect of your NDE useful? If so, in what way?
Indeed it was! It let me see another aspect of my-Self that has more wisdom, grace and power.
Did you feel like you were in touch with the divine in any way or at any time during your interview? If so, in what way(s)?
Yes, when the Void was talking I felt the divine coming through.
Have you experimented since the interview at becoming your interviewed character and attempting to live your life from its perspective and out of its energy? If so, have you noticed any results? If so, what?
I haven’t done so yet, but I do intend to try this technique on other aspects of my NDE.
Now that some time has passed, do you think that the recommendations your character had for your waking life were appropriate, relevant, and useful? If so, how?
Yes, although it is difficult for me to always remember, and I have to balance my real limitations against my higher dreams and sometimes say “No.That has been my biggest challenge, especially since I had the stroke. I do find it inspiring to view situations from the point of the Unity, instead of physical separation and limitation.
Sometimes we can get swamped with recommendations during interviews and sometimes the press of daily events swamps our ability to apply the recommendations we do receive. Has either been the case for you?
As I shared with you, I pushed myself to get to my next appointment even though I wasn’t feeling well, and came back really sick! So, there was a bit of a delay in implementing the changes Void suggested. However, I’m feeling better and better each day, and am meditating and moving joyfully each day.
Did you learn anything new about your NDE from your interview? Did it change your attitude about it in any way?
It reinforced what I already knew, making it personal. I loved the life issue of raising my vibration! What a joyful “core” task. Also, it confirmed that the divine is always there, and that I have to invite it to help me in my trials. I would like to reach the point of just doing, but I’m still a bit ill. However, this is the story of my life!
How about NDEs in general? Did your interview change your attitude about NDEs in any way? If so, how?
I love NDEs, and my NDE in particular. They are great, great gifts of light and love.
Has your character continued to be present? Have you had any success at becoming it? Or has its significance faded with time?
The Void was very powerful, and I continue to feel Its presence. My struggle has been letting go of my identity with the body and with pain. I know at some level that I am more than this body, but I haven’t yet mastered that in everyday reality.
Do you think reading over your IDL interview would help someone who has not had an NDE to benefit from them all the same?
Yes. In Lessons from the Light, Kenneth Ring called it the benevolent virus, that others benefit just from reading about. He did research with college freshmen and senior citizens. Both groups lost their fear of death through learning about and studying NDES.
Do you think an IDL interview could help people who have not had an NDE to get in touch with the divine?
Yes, for the reason stated above.
Do you think this interviewing process could help NDEers avoid doing a “spiritual bypass?” (thinking they were totally healed and not addressing their psychological issues.)
In my experience, most NDErs have emotional or physical challenges that they readily recognize. I believe the concept of spiritual bypass is more common for spiritual seekers, especially those with an Eastern slant that deny the reality/legitimacy of the ego and the problems caused by earlier traumas and conditioning.
Do you think that sharing your interview with family and friends could help them come to grips with the transformation that is still occurring in your life as a result of your NDE?
Yes, if they are open to it.
Do you think that an IDL interview on a NDE theme could help terminally ill patients and their families?
What a wonderful idea! I believe my NDE taught me that we live on and there is nothing to fear.